Too tight valve pin spring issue... lil help?

[Mr. Niceguy]

After watching the video, (twice), I took apart my "new" mag. I bought it used and wanted to learn more out of general curiosity. I noticed in the video that the reg valve pin spring came out with very little resistance, remained on the valve pin head and was done with next to no effort. Mine was so very difficult to remove. So much so that the spring stayed in the valve body after the reg valve pin had pulled free. I had my machinist friend mic it and he said it, (the spring) was too big. His idea of "too big" is measured in thousands of an inch. I had to use my dental pic to get the spring out, during which it stretched the coils. I figured this strecthing is what made it too big. He said not so. I figured, hmmm... someone must have fooled with the spring before I got this gun. Who knows, maybe tried some dumb <font color=blue> "untwist your spring to get 35 shots a second mod" </font color=blue> perhaps? Or so I thought. It was apparent that the spring was junk and not going back in my gun. I called this very kind and knowledgable gal at AGD who secured a new one for me and mailed it out. I got about a week later, tried to install it, and learned that it too would not go in as depicted in the video. In fact, it was so tight it barely accepted the first coil before beginning to compress. I said nope... I'm not going to bugger it up, this ain't right, and stopped. It was spun during removal to defer damage and sucessfully removed without injury to the spring. Sure I could have forced it, but I would have been in the same boat as before. A mashed spring isn't doing 100% of what it was designed to do. So I ask you, the experts and long time owners of automags - what's your take on this? Anyone else ever have this issue? I'm not putting the new spring in unless it is right. I know by looking that it SHOULD drop in with minimal effort and not be bunched up or distorted. I am in no way going to do it half right. Hammers and pliers have no place around high end, well machined markers IMHO. (I was ever so surprised to read today that a Super moderator suggested using pliers on a flatline tank for routine maintenance... ummm... not on my tank you wont.) Keep that type of tool for working on your junker $1500 dollar car or mending farm fences. Anyone encounter this too tight spring related problem??????? What's the deal.

[BlackVCG]

First of all, the only purpose of that spring is to hold the reg. valve pin in place. It doesn't matter if it's too long or too short. The piston and air pressure are what make it move back and forth. It could be that the hole is machined a few thousandths of of an inch too small and thus the spring doesn't go in as easily. Take the spring and pin and push it in the hole as much as possible. With the piston and spring pack out of the reg. valve body, screw the reg. valve body onto the front valve half. This will make it so that the reg. valve pin is centered and you can drop the piston in and assure that the pin will rest in the pocket in the center of the piston. Drop in the spring pack and tighten the velocity adjuster nut just past the point that it starts to build tension.

The only reason I suggest screwing on the reg. valve body half with the piston out is that if your're not careful, the reg. valve pin will not rest in the pocket in the center of the piston and it will bend the reg. valve pin when you tighten the two halves.

As for you comment about me stating to use pliers, you might want to use a Flatline or see one to know what I'm talking about. I said you could use a cresent wrench or a set of pliers to HOLD the nuts that hold the cradle clamp to the cradle arm. Some people don't know how to use tools and they'll scratch up their equipment no matter what. But if you have a bit of patience and control you can easily use the pair of pliers to hold the nut so you can loosen the screw. It's not all that hard. We're not working on 250 million dollar aerospace equipment here. The cresent wrench will act as the same thing as a pair of pliers. They're just used to hold the nut so it doesn't turn when you go to unscrew the screw with your allen wrench. And if you've ever taken a cradle of a Flatline, you'll notice there isn't enough room to hold the nut with an end wrench.

[Mr. Niceguy]

You said, "<i>It could be that the hole is machined a few thousandths of of an inch too small and thus the spring doesn't go in as easily.</i>" I'll subscribe to that thought and have it machined accordingly.<p>
As far as the pliers deal, nothing personal, but unless they are gunsmith pliers, they stay in the basement. I'm sure that it can be done properly and without cosmetic damage in the fashion you describe.

[BlackVCG]

Seriously, it really doesn't matter. You'll do damage to the reg. seat pocket by boring out that blind hole for the valve pin and spring. Take a wooden dowel the diameter of the hole or smaller and push the spring in the hole as far as it can go. Pop in the reg. valve pin and it's fine. The ONLY purpose of that spring is to hold the valve pin in place. As long as it's down in the hole a bit, it's fine. There is no spec on the spring length. It can be stretched out .250" and the gun will work exactly the same.

Sorry if you have a problem with me using the word pliers. I said to use a cresent wrench, but not everyone knows what that is or has one readily available so a good pair of pliers or even needle nose pliers would do the same task. We're dealing with 15 year old kids here, not gunsmiths. Sorry.

[Mr. Niceguy]

Strange, but interesting... it's obvious that I do not fully understand the internal workings of my new marker. I'll figure it out, if not on my own, with guidence from the excellent staff at AGD and those on this board. No need to apologize by the way, regardless of what terminology you selected or what you meant by it, I don't doubt you are well versed with the automag line. I'll still have the hole relieved, but it will be done by a machinist, depth mic and such. The gun is just too nice to have one minor flaw - even if it proves not as a disadvantage to function. They tell me I tend to be overly "cosmetically correct" at times. I like this marker, what can I say? <p>

Now maybe if it were my old Tippmann..........

[BlackVCG]

Automag Valve Operation

Here's a post I made on the basics of the AIR Valve and how it works. This might help a bit in understanding the gun more.