Proper Trigger Reactivity

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Panzerr
    a stockaholic
    • Sep 2001
    • 683

    #1

    Proper Trigger Reactivity

    With the advent of level 10, x-vavle and the xmag, automags are steadily increasing in popularity. Despite these advances, I continue to hear negative comments about RT and Retro mags. I've heard people complain about the ROF of RTs, saying they are not cracked up to what people say they are. At first, I didn't believe them. They aren't just saying it because they're being childish and want their setup to be better than yours or your buddy's.

    After installing several x-valves and "tuning" a couple of RTs, I have come to the conclusion that these people really mean it. I have shot several RT's that are not tuned properly. That is, they are not reactive enough. It seems that people expect RTs and x-valves to be phenominal out of the box. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not, it all depends on the strict tolerances. But unfortunately, the tolerances are so exact that you almost need to custom match every on-off pin. When done you will get the proper reactivity out of your trigger. Your trigger won't run away or double fire and you will get insane rates of fire. Believe me, I've outshot angels with a single trigger on my old RT.

    Most people, not even many RT users know this. Or at least, if they do know it, they don't talk about it on these boards. Now and then an RT pro may come out of the box with the proper reactivity, but for the most part it doesn't happen. By "tuning" the RT pro, I mean by getting a proper length on/off pin. If my memory serves me correct, a shorter pin will give you more reactivity, and a longer less. If you get a pin that is too short, it will run-away. The reactivity is also affected by your input pressure, but to a lesser degree (from my experience with my flatline on an RT).

    So, in short, don't judge an RT out of the box. You may have been shooting an RT for years and not been getting all the performance out of it that you could. Once you get the valve tuned, they will rock like none other.

    rant out.
    sixty-six.

    Du bist, was du machst. Punkt.

  • MicroB
    AKA Phoolio
    • May 2001
    • 196

    #2
    The reactivity of a trigger is in the input pressure to the RT/X valve. There in lies a problem more pressure to the marker the harder it is to fire, more presure pushing on the on/off. People that know what they are doing shorten the on/off to get the marker to fire sooner in the trigger stroke. If you shorten the on/off to much the sear will not catch the bolt long enough, and cause wear problems or full auto. People need to read or watch the video about there gun before, they should complain about its performance. I disagree that people don't state the performance of their RT,X-valve, rt pro, or Retro marker. Just by being on these boards shows your intrest in Automags. I do agree most don't fine tune their markers, but they may be happy with them the way they are. My X-valve mag is the fastest gun I've ever shot, and no battery required

    Thx, B
    Blue Acid Wash Excal. #137
    90ci nitroduck
    Blue Halo B

    Comment

    • armyboot
      Registered User
      • May 2002
      • 175

      #3
      How exactly do you fine tune a retro for best performance?

      Comment

      • MicroB
        AKA Phoolio
        • May 2001
        • 196

        #4
        You should read alot. There is a ton of info on this sight. There is very little you can do to a RT, and what you can do is very minor. These minor adjustments will help tremendously if you know what your doing, if you don't you'll do more harm than good. Alot of it is personal prefrence so learn your RT first. Play with the input presure see how you like your trigger, or what gives you the best rate of fire. Once your comfortable with that, then do a search for on/off pin length, sear wear, trigger rod length, and LX info to dial everything in. In the process you'll learn more about your marker, and be able to set it up how you like. Post agian with specific questions if your already this far.

        B
        Blue Acid Wash Excal. #137
        90ci nitroduck
        Blue Halo B

        Comment

        • armyboot
          Registered User
          • May 2002
          • 175

          #5
          The only thing I'm really confused about are the on/off pins. I know they affect the reactivity, but not how.

          I used to have a classic mag, so I know a bit about them.
          I just recently purchased a retro mag. I remember shooting an emag at the local store, and the trigger felt more reactive. Was it due to the diff on/off pin?

          Comment

          • MaxPowers

            #6
            RT Reactive Trigger

            Hey Guys, I'm kinda new here so bear with me a bit. I've been (and am) a mag user since since the pre-level 7 days. I am constantly amazed how well my Mags perform, and in the case of my RT, out perform just about everything out there. I've seen or been through just about every piece of BS thats been put on the aftermarket, and the bottom line is that AGD markers are winners for the most part right out of the box. Like every new gun you buy, there is a learning curve, of course. I've helped out many mag owners get through this. From liquid problems to barrel/paint matches (which seem to affect mags a bit more than most guns). What I wanted to throw out there is about the RT trigger. Ive had my gun since about 99'. Its well broken in. I am very familiar with how it works and how to maintain it. My one area where I seem tobe getting inconsistane results is in the reactive trigger. SOme days the thing is incredible, some days its so-so, some days its no better than any of my old mags. I have my input pressure set at 800 psi. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions about this?? Thanks...

            Comment

            • MicroB
              AKA Phoolio
              • May 2001
              • 196

              #7
              What is your exact setup? Are you using a preset or an adjustable tank? Reactiveness is all about the air supplied to the gun. RT's seem to like 800 psi or greater IMO, but this to is a preference thing. Are you talking about reactiveness or trigger pull? To shorten your trigger pull is the on/off, alot of people confuse the two. You can also adjust your trigger rod so that when the marker is gassed up it has only a slight crack of light between it and the trigger, about the thickness of the cover of a book of matches. This eliminates excess trigger play. If you do shorten the trigger pull by adjusting the on/off length it appears the trigger is more reactive. When in fact it isn't, it just shortens the entire trigger stroke so it takes less to sustain high rates of fire. The on/off also determines how long or how much of the bolt it catches. So Making the on/off pin shorter will effect the whole marker cycle. Pull trigger, on/off release air, Sear releases bolt, Air pushes bolt forward, ball is fired, Air in valve resets on/off pin(depending on the pressure)as it pushes on the top of the on/off pin, sear is pushed down by on/off resetting the trigger and the sear to catch th bolt as the spring pushes it back. So the on/off pin controls the whole timing, that is why you shouldn't shorten it unless you know what you are doing. I use a .740 on/off in my x-valve stock is .750 as you can see hundrenths can make a world of difference. AGD can't mass produce markers if they had to get every marker within a hundrenth. So they average what works. So out of the box some will be rippin and others will need to be fine tuned. Don't get me wrong, either marker will be a performer. The stickies at the top of this forum have alot of info about your markers performance, and it never hurts to do a search on these topics.

              Thx, B
              Blue Acid Wash Excal. #137
              90ci nitroduck
              Blue Halo B

              Comment

              • MaxPowers

                #8
                Thanks

                Thanks...........FYI im using a, adjustable Centerflag 4500/88 bottle. Usually keep the input at 800. I play with it until I get it where I like the trigger. But like I said, it just seems to be very inconsistant. I have a proteam 45 frame, and Im probably going to pick up an Intelliframe. I really hate the slop in the Proteam trigger, even though I have to stopped and blocked pretty well. Made bad is made bad - and no shims, set screws or whatever will really change it. (Although make it a bit more livable)

                Comment

                • MicroB
                  AKA Phoolio
                  • May 2001
                  • 196

                  #9
                  Most likely your frame, also adjust your trigger rod. I would wait until i got a I frame though well worth the money.

                  Thx, B
                  Blue Acid Wash Excal. #137
                  90ci nitroduck
                  Blue Halo B

                  Comment

                  • DonPage
                    Registered User
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 14

                    #10
                    Level 10 = Bigger Faster Sweet Spot

                    I've had my blessed Mag for a little over 2 years now, I added an RT valve about a year ago. I was disappointed with the level of reactivity in the trigger so I added an IntellaFrame with a Blade trigger, later an adjustable tank. Everything helped, but nothing resulted in the sweet spot that I was looking for. Frankly I was starting to think I was just to dim witted to fire the gun correctly. Then I added the level 10 upgrade and the sweet spot I had been searching for unexpectedly appeared. In the past the best I could do was short bursts of 3 to 4 balls at about 8 bps. Now with the trigger reacting like it should I could dump an entire hopper at 13bps with ease! (Not that I would)

                    It seems like the sweet spot becomes bigger and faster with the Mags reg set at the lowest possible pressure. At one time I am pretty sure the gun was firing at about 20 bps! It seems to me, in my limited experience that a weaker spring would allow you to turn down the reg and produce a larger faster sweet spot. Between the three springs shouldn't it be possible to get any RT to sweet spot at a given velocity?
                    If so why doesn't anyone talk about it? AGD should market a RT Fine Tune Kit with a selection of springs so we can all turn our RTs into the dream guns we seek. Right now I am shooting 13 bps with deadly accuracy. I can't chop no matter how hard I try. What more could any baller ask for?

                    Thanks

                    Don

                    Comment

                    • jewie27
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2001
                      • 1275

                      #11
                      NEVER MESS WITH THE TRIGGER ROD!

                      Comment

                      • Evil1
                        Registered User
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 979

                        #12
                        I'll have to agree w/ Jewie on that. It can screw up alot of things in the gun and if not right away sometime down the road.

                        Comment

                        • Dayspring
                          aka- The Day Wang

                          • May 2001
                          • 9664

                          #13
                          And a 9 month old thread...

                          You guys just don't read do you?

                          Comment

                          • Z-man
                            You guys lost me
                            • Jul 2001
                            • 2202

                            #14
                            Bad children! no touchy sear pins!

                            But as MicroB put it, the RT reactivity IS based on the input pressure of the tank. That is the main thing people do not realize. Now this is my rapid-fire thread but the principals of tweaking your reactivity are all in there.



                            Leech MY Images Will You?!?!

                            Comment

                            Working...