What is the highest ROF any of you have ever seen for a stock automag? By 'stock' I mean no x-valve, or rt-valve. Trigger job's are ok, polished sears, 8-hole chargers, aftermarket bolts, lvl 10 kit, etc, all of that's cool too, just nothing that falls under the 'rt' catagory, or even the arguable 'trigger bounce' catagory. The reason that I am asking this question is that the owner's manual for the lvl 7 mag states a max rof of about 7 bps for the experienced user, but for a long time I understood the true upperbound of a stock mag to be 9 bps. Since I put the lvl 10 in my gun and played with the push rod a little bit, I got a pretty cool surprise. Two tournament's ago I was blowing some paint over the chrono/bps meter and the chrono said that I was shooting 11 bps. I tried the other chrono at the field and it too gave me an rof of 11 bps. I was wondering, has anybody else experienced this? What is the highest ROF for a non-rt mag that anybody has ever seen/heard of?
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classic valves have been tested to 16bps without shootdown.
afterawhile you just learn your trigger and can shoot pretty fast with it. i'm TOO use to it, i just got a emag and instead of makign the trigger some ub3r lightness i had to make it a longer pull. -
classic @ 16bps w/o shoot down? YOU ON CRACK!
My classic couldnt keep up with my hyperframe @ 13bps.. so..yea.. :/
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On crack? Don't think so....Go to:
there's a vid of a classic AIR valve mag doing 16bps. If it is experiencing shootdown it's certainly not a critical problem in this case....
Warpig reported on the prototype Hyperframe shooting 20bps on a classic Mag.
Shootdown lowers the velocity at high fire rates, but it doesn't stop the gun from firing usefully.Comment
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pzyco, you were using microline weren't you
but yes. 16bps is what AGD says. maybe with high enough air source and a good line, might even get it higher than that. but hey, if AGD says 16, then i'm not saying any lower than that.
xvalve tho. 26bps.
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The key to good recharge times is a high input pressure with no restricitons. AIR valves will do quite well when you provide the proper trigger stroke.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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16 bps w/o shootdown? Not bad, thats the same ROF as an angel. It's a pitty the guy was shooting FA on the video, I hope that someday I'll actually see somebody make a stock mag fire 16 bps with no electro frame. I read somewhere else on this forum where a guy claims a steady 13 bps out of a stock mag, not too shabby. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of mags in tournaments anymore, the difference between 13 bps and 17 bps could be the difference between a miss and a hit off the break. I played in a tournament three days ago and watched a guy shoot 20 bps over the chrono, I've never seen a mag do that. X-valves and RT's (including Tippman RT's, but there weren't any) were banned under the same rule that pro-hibbited trigger bounce and shooting FA. So what if my mag (there was one other on the field) was one of the few guns that didn't chop or have a battery die through eight games and countless casses of paint? So what if it didn't blow a seal, aquire a leak or not fire because somebody forgot to turn it on? When one of our A-team guy's IR3 went down minutes before their next game, he was given the choice between a 01 STO and a lvl 10 mag. The mag stayed home. So, what's the moral of the story? Until an out of the box mag (not e-mag) can outshoot an angel or timmy, the number of mags in the tournament scene will continue to decrease. Sorry for the diatribe.Comment
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That's just crazy, because you're comparing apples to oranges. The e-mag is specifically in competition with the Angel and Timmy. Why would a $300 stock mag have to compete with a $1300 Angel? If people are willing to shell out over a grand for a gun, they can get an E-Mag that will more than compete with all the Angels and Timmys (and look cooler, imho).Originally posted by backtrack2pb
Until an out of the box mag (not e-mag) can outshoot an angel or timmy, the number of mags in the tournament scene will continue to decrease. Sorry for the diatribe.www.no1beefcake.com
New forum!Comment
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People just don't get it. A reactive trigger on the mag is WAY different than full auto. The gun has to be modified to produce this kind of result. It just doesn't "happen." people don't get that. We were at Skirmish USA for a tourney and had to educate the refs on the fact that just b/c you have a reactive trigger doesn't mean it's more than one ball per pull.
And just an FYI- Mag RTs are NOT banned. Please do not spread that around. It's false.
Originally posted by backtrack2pb
X-valves and RT's (including Tippman RT's, but there weren't any) were banned under the same rule that pro-hibbited trigger bounce and shooting FA.Comment
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First off, RT's WERE banned. I had to ref a newbie tournament in Feburary and 98 customs with the RT kit were forbidden, so were RT mag's. At the past two NCPA tournaments I've competed in RT's were forbidden as well. And before you start ranting on the NCPA, keep in mind that it is one of the largest paintball orginizations out there.
Yes, comparing mags to angels is apples to oranges. However, many of you would consider the mag as good or better than an autococker. I see more cockers on the tournament field (NCPA or NPPL) than automags. If the mag is a better gun than a cocker (and I believe it is) then why is the situation not reversed? Why are they're more cockers going up against angels and timmy's than mags? In either case, the regular mag is way past it's prime as a tournament gun unless some major change happens. The lvl 10 was an amazing step forward and is a big factor as to why I didn't shelve my gun and buy a PBK Timmy for this season. If it is true that a regular, out of the box, 300 dollar mag can shoot 16 bps without chopping, then the mag still has some life left in it in the tournament scene.Comment
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Saying "banned" means an overall and expansive ban. What say we be a little more specific next time. As you said, it was a noob tourney. NOT QUITE the NPPL is it?
Next, what was their reasoning?
As for the NCPA- I have much respect for the Paintball Associations around, but I don't care HOW big it is. NPPL hasn't even banned RTs as a whole. I think the whole issue is stupid if you ask me.
Originally posted by backtrack2pb
First off, RT's WERE banned. I had to ref a newbie tournament in Feburary and 98 customs with the RT kit were forbidden, so were RT mag's. At the past two NCPA tournaments I've competed in RT's were forbidden as well. And before you start ranting on the NCPA, keep in mind that it is one of the largest paintball orginizations out there.
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The standard mag can do the rated 16 bps, but if the user can't pull the trigger that fast, it will never be realized. The gun will only perform to the ability of the user. That is where the retro valve comes into play. The retro valve does some of the work by providing some of the return pressure on the trigger.Originally posted by backtrack2pb
16 bps w/o shootdown? Not bad, thats the same ROF as an angel.... I hope that someday I'll actually see somebody make a stock mag fire 16 bps with no electro frame. I read somewhere else on this forum where a guy claims a steady 13 bps out of a stock mag, not too shabby. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of mags in tournaments anymore.... I played in a tournament three days ago and watched a guy shoot 20 bps over the chrono, I've never seen a mag do that.
Any new electro trigger is light enough to pull very rapidly. If you get switch bounce, you can achieve insane rates of fire like 20bps.
People will choose what they are comfortable with. If the user was a former cocker user, then in the event of an electro-gun failure he will likely use the backup cocker over a mag. The biggest downfall of the mag was the thought that it chopped a lot. This was brewed in the early years during the cocker mag duals of the early 90's when closed bolt guns shot farther. Ask a former mag user what backup gun he would choose. Mags are making an amazing comeback in the market. I think you will see many more, especially as older ones get resurfaced because of backwards compatability.
Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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