Cocker leak question...

[deded]

pipda> thanks for the extensive reply... and welcome to AO!

I think that the 3way is a kapp 3 way, an old one.

Its a stock right feed 99 cocker.
rat valve
ANS gen x2 reg with guage on it.

I don't know what the reg on the front is, but I might be able to find out.

The reg does not move at all when it is gassed up. The air just flows right through it--and doesn't seem to pressurize at all. It acts just like it wasn't cocked.

So you said this may be a hammer problem or something... could you elaborate on this a little, maybe tell me what I can do about it.

Thanks!

[deded]

Oh yeah, what I tightened was the front screw on the coupling, the one that attaches to the little rod with the two orings on it that goes into the 3 way.

[PiPDA]

so you have a guage on your front block? like in the bottom part? The Reg should tighten up when u gas it up. IF you have a guage in ur front block it will be reading ur input preasure from ur inline reg. Like i was saying the Valve and 4-way have no connection...but i have a theory with the three way too. you know how it leaks when u don't cock a cocker () before u put air to it? That is because the hammer is sitting and holding the valve stem and cupseal open...and u can't get enough air fast enough to seal it up, it can't build up preasure cause its rushing by the cup seal down the barrel..this isn't true with all cockers. depends on the spring set up. When it get suffecent preasure the cupseal seals against the valve stopping the horrible leak. If you can't get enough preasure (ie: ur reg is too low it won't ever seal). in short if u have too low a preasure to push the cup seal into valve and seal up it will leak even when the hammer is pulled back and not pressing the cup seal in. the easiest way to fix this is to turn the preassure in the inline up. It can also leak if the preasure is to high...this happens on a Low Preassure valve made to seal at super low preasure and not high. course we can't tell which one till u can tell me what ur inline preassure is. If the preassure seems right you could have a worn out cup seal, or some dirt..or a FAT PIECE OF TEFLON tape u shot straight to it. course its unlikly u got it through the Regulator. So figure out what ur Inline reg output preasure is for me so I can help.
On to the 4 way. the 4 way shaft should have a little indenture in it where the set screw in the coupling is supposed to go in. now with some of the KAPP shafts i notic they are not long enough to go all the way into the coupling so the hole lines up with the indenture so the screw sets in perfect. Does the three way have a set screw type nut in the front of it? But if the set screw in the coupling dosn't catch the shaft all sorts of bad mojo happens in the three way timing.

[deded]

pardon my newbieness... but which is the inline reg?

The guage is on the reg that is on the botom of the marker, not on the front block. Sorry about the wierdness of the picture, I have the fisheye on my digi.

[deded]

I tightened them both down... and nothing happened.

But I noticed something new.

When I turn the tank all of the way on, and the air blows out the barrel really fast, I hear a whistle from inside. Right about where the valve is.

So I'm pretty sure that it is an oring or cup seal problem. Hopefully I can take it to the shop tommorow, and get a new seal. It will probably cost more for them to do it for me, but should I have them do it? Or does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the valve out and in without screwing anything up.

[DeepFrz97]

Pipda knows what he is talking about. I taught him how to time when he first started, though he has come a long way since then. One other thing I might think it would be is the 3 way timing. You didn't say if the 3 way was leaking. If it is then I would believe that the timing rod is set a bit too short and the 3 way shaft isn't sitting properly when at rest.

Hey Danny boy, sounds like you are going to be tough competition for the title "Cocker King of Charleston" when I return. I will retain my crown! lol (Don't tell Clank I said that....lol

[deded]

The 3 way doesn't seem to be leaking at all.

But the air doesn't even really get to the 3 way I don't think. It just goes right out the barrel.

[DeepFrz97]

My first thought (without actually seeing the gun) since it is not leaking out of the 3 way is that the Cocking pressure is too low. If you have an aftermarket low pressure reg (the one in the front) you should be able to adjust it with an allen wrench in the front. If not then it gets more difficult since you have to remove the reg to adjust it.
You must remember that I have been away from my Cocker for a while and Pipda would be up to speed a bit more than I would at this point.
It sounds like something that a good tech should be able to troubleshoot in a matter of a couple of minutes if they had it in their hands. You must remember that it is much easier to troubleshoot in person than over the internet.

[deded]

yeah... thats what I figured.

I'll tell you guys what the tech says tommorow if I end up going.



Thanks for all of the replys

Feel free to add anything if you think it would help me out at all.

[PiPDA]

I suggest taking it to a tech also. Your valve and cup seal may be hosed...either way your 4-way needs some adjustments its moving in unatural ways. a new cup seal shouldn't be more than a few dollars...assuming he has a cup seal that will work with your valve. Deep i traded my cocker a week or so ago for an RT. So im on the other end of the stick now...I want to get some play time in and not spend my day sitting around fixing cockers that some one ordered parts of the net installed em them selves and then realized they have no clue whats going on. So now i deny ever knowing anything about autocockers.

[DeepFrz97]

Pipda, I know how you feel. Luckily when I first got my Cocker I was the only one at the field with one, so by the time everyone else started buying them I was well versed on the issues that can arise by mistimed Cockers. You can remember how much time I had to spend working on everyone else's. I still like the one Jessie had that was down for a year because it was mistimed. I don't know why everyone thinks it takes some magic touch to time a Cocker. It just takes some patience and effort to learn how to do it properly. I bet you are having fun back there with everyone buying Cockers for the first time.
So, you bought an RT? How funny is that? I bought an Emag and Skeeter is building a Cocker. Talk about turning the world upside down. Are you planning on building another Cocker anytime soon? I think we are proving that mags and Cockers can live in harmony....Let's all sing around the campfire now....Kum by ya......

[SGTKennedy]

i wouldnt give up my rt for anything... except maybe an Emag. but i like to play with different toys every now and then.

[deded]

took it to the tech earlier tonight.

He's kinda backed up so its going to take him a while. But he's pretty sure its a major valve problem. i.e. cup seal totally screwed, valve totally screwed, or something keeping the valve from seeling.

I also bought a valve tool so next time I can make sure that its not something minor myself. (asuming that there is a next time)

Thanks for all of the help guys. Though it didn't lead to me fixing it myself, it did force me to learn a few things about it!

[deded]

update

The airsmith called...

he said that the internal threading was stripped... and that the problem could not be fixed by him. It has to be sent back to WGP.

He said the person that installed the valve had not installed it right, and that they did not put some piece in, because it wouldn't have threaded in right (because the threads were stripped)


This sucks for me... I'm out $300 unless I can get the guy who sold it to me to take it back, or unless wgp can fix it (hopefully for not too much)

Any suggestions on what I should do?

Has anyone had experience with WGP customer service... (I know they're not AGD, but hopefully they'll help me out)