Considering Buying an Automag-Q's

[Winchester7000]

Hello, I am fairly new to paintball and I considering buying an AGD gun. They're durable, accurate, well-priced, and the fact that they are mechanical is great. (I dislike E-markers). I own the typical novice marker, the Tippmann 98c with a 12" Lapco Bigshot.

Although the Tippmann is a great gun, I do not like it as much as I thought I would. When I realized that I could get a used mag for the same price I was excited! I want to sell my 98c to a friend and purchase a mag - the true ultimate tweaker marker.

Yes, I know I am new to the game, and may be going overboard, but I truly enjoy it, and I love tinkering with stuff like this (I like to take my 98c apart just for fun - fitting the frames back on while keeping valve in is a challenge sometimes . An AGD marker is intermediat level gun with supposedly excellent performance.

My questions are as follows:

1) Are these "horror stories" about the mag and CO2 true or are they exaggerations? Would a new mag work fine with a 20 oz. CO2? I know they are meant for N2. Is it just that they run more efficient on N2? Will Co2 hurt my gun if I use it or will it just reduce performance?

If Co2 is that large of a problem then:

2) How much do N2 tank refills cost? I ask because my dad is an analytical chemist and has access to N2 tanks with regulators for different pressures. I suppose the N2 would be the same as used for paintball markers? (N2 - diatomic molecule - pure nitrogen - sounds that simple to me) If so, forking over the cash for the tank would eventually pay for itself if I could get the free refills!

3) What entry-level nitro tank would you reccomend for an automag user?

4) What is the difference between standard and power feed?

5) I like to aim down the center of my marker like iron sights on a rifle - what kind of feed would be the best for me, left, center, or right? I think I would like left power feed because with the elbow, that would mean that the hopper would be to the right side of the gun? What is center like? Is it like the 98c feed where you don't need an elbow? I can always buy a new feed later too right? Are they expensive?

Here are some used mags I was looking at - tell me what you think:

nice! A BuyNow for $230 - could be my best bet?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47252

classic 68 mag, standard-feed, bottomline - rdy to go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

nice Lapco barrel, nice-looking grip:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47252

price will probably go up far but looks nice:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47252

comes with n2 tank:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47245

has expansion chamber-might be good if you think its okay to stick with Co2:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=16048

this one is very nice but the price will go way up :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47252

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=47252

Please post advice as quickly as you can because these auctions end in a few days! I greatly appreciate it and thanks for your help!

[ghideon]

I got back into this sport a lil under three years ago. I started with over again with a Tippy 98C (still have it, too), and then got an E-Mag. Never looked back.

1) A lot of people have run CO2 just fine on a Mag. If you're playing in colder climates, you'll prolly have problems, but that's not the Mag's fault. If it's an XValve or an RT Valve you HAVE to use HPA. Also, if you're having problems w/CO2, you can use an anti siphon tank (should run you maybe $20 at the airsmith) or a Palmer Stabilizer. Mind you, the Stabilizer will run you approx $80, so at the point you might as well go HPA (which you should when you have the $$$).

2) HPA fills vary. At the places I play at, it's usually $10-$12 for all day air, or a buck for every 1K psi. HPA tanks tend to run on the high side of fills, considering a Mag will need at least 800psi in the tank to even function.
The compressors used to pump air into tanks tend to be expensive. Also, for the sake of paintball, HPA (high pressure air) and N2 are pretty much the same thing, as far as performance goes. You can run either, it's just that most run HPA since it's easy to obtain (just need a compressor).

3) Mags aren't the most efficient, but I would say at least a 68ci tank. If you've got places around that will fill to 4.5K, get a 4.5K tank. Personally I'd recommend Crossfire. My roommate has one for his Cocker, and he's never had any problems with it. A 68ci/4.5K tank should run about $200. A 47ci/3K tank runs about $80, in contrast.

4) Power feeds is what you see here:

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=57

Can't find a picture of what a standard feed is.

5) You can buy a new 'feed,' but you actually buy a new body for the Mag in order to change the feed. Available bodies you can find here:

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=10

Personally, I shoot hopper left, and can aim down the barrel. With the right and left powerfeeds, you will still need an eblow, but it's just a standard elbow (unline the 98C's elbow).

[Zneaky]

First off, Welcome to AO!

In your situation HPA(N2) would be way better. Entry level you can buy a Pure Energy 48 cubic inch 3000 psi bottle/regulator for under $80 most cases $60, new.

As far as C02 on some Automags you can cause damage by freezing orings. You would have to use an expansion chamber and even that is not full proof if you fire very fast. Stay away from co2 its just easier and for you cheeper in HPA.

There's the awnser to your first question.

[RTC_LoKi]

get an RT Custom..great deal..great gun. Best of all u dont need to get any upgrades besides small stuff that u probably wont even end up needing lol. I got it screwd in my n2 tank and thats it.. no fiddling .. no chops.. just perfect. I LOVE ADG.

[Raven4000SX]

Welcome to AO and I hope you find a Mag that you like. Just wanted to let you know that a Powerfeed feeds faster than a Standard Feed. If I had to choose betwen the two, I would go powerfeed. I have one, and hooked my Warp Feed through the bottom of it.

[Winchester7000]

You can run either, it's just that most run HPA since it's easy to obtain (just need a compressor).

I can use an air compressor to fill it?

Also, do you think the N2 my dad has access to would work with paintball nitro tanks?

[athomas]

If you have access to N2, you are fine. Get a HPA tank instead of CO2. HPA is more stable although CO2 does work fine on a standard mag. I used it for years before HPA was around and never had a problem. HPA will save you money in the end, especially if you get a scuba tank and fill adapter to fill your own HPA tanks. I save about $50.00/month using the scuba setup over what I used to pay for CO2. It doesn't take long to pay for your tanks and fill adapter at that rate.

I personally like the vertcal feed bodies. I used to like to be able to sight down the top of the barrel but got used to sighting down the side. The plus is that your hopper doesn't stick out to the side and you don't have to worry about breaking elbows.

[craltal]

Welcome to AO

You need to have a compressor that will put out a high enough pressure to fill the tank. A regular compressor will fill a paintball tank to something like 200psi, essentially useless. You'd need a compressor like they have at a scuba shop that can get past 3000 psi.

A classic valve mag will run on CO2, but put an anti-siphon on the tank and route the air through the front grip.

As for the auctions, the first one looks good as does:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

stay away from the one with the expansion chamber as it has ANS parts, stick with AGD parts and you will have less problems.

oh, yeah I almost forgot. You probably don't want a 114ci tank. that's HUGE. You'll be able to run all day on one fill, but it is massive to have mounted to your gun.

[Winchester7000]

get an RT Custom..great deal..great gun. Best of all u dont need to get any upgrades besides small stuff that u probably wont even end up needing lol. I got it screwd in my n2 tank and thats it.. no fiddling .. no chops.. just perfect. I LOVE ADG.

I took a look at the RT Custom, and I decided to change my plans. Most of the mags I was looking at on ebay were in the $200 range, however, for an additional $100 I can get an Automag RT Custom, with the upgrades I need, including the X-10 bolt!

I have decided to first buy a decent nitro tank with the money I have put away now. I will use my Tippmann 98c with N2 until I save a little more for a RT Custom because it defiantly seems worth it. That way I can gain the benefit of better performance with N2 now, and when I buy my mag later I will be all set!

I am still debating about what kind of nitro tank to get though. What is better, steel or fiber? What do all those numbers and acronyms in the specifications of tanks mean? I want a tank that will last me all day when full, but one that is not too large. You see, when I play paintball with my friends, it is usually an all-day thing on saturdays. I need enough air to last the whole day, but I like to be able to move, make snapshots, etc. without a tank being in my way.

One more question.... Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to hydro your tank? One of the sellers on ebay said that the tank he was selling would not need to be hydroed until 2007? Does this cost anything? What does it do? Why must you do this every once in a while?

[Raven4000SX]

Hydro Testing

For the ULE RT Custom you must have a HPA to run it. Here's what Hydro testing is. Hydro is short for Hydrostatic Testing. It is done every 3 to 5 years depending on the cylinder (tank). Hydros are required to make sure that the cylinder can safely hold the stamped fill pressure. Example: A 3000 psi cylinder must be able to safely hold 3000. The way it works is the cylinder is place in a special water tank and the cylinder is filled to a pressure higher than it's normal fill pressure. As the cylinder is filled beyond it's intended pressure, it actually stretches. The amount of water that it displaces is recorded and must not exceed 10% of it's original water volume. Pretty much meaning the cylinder being tested can't stretch more than 10% of it's original size. A visual inspection is also included with the Hydro test. The inspectors visually look inside the cylinder for signs of corrosion and cracks. I myself do the visual inspections for SCUBA cylinders I had to take a 8 hour class to become certified for this.

Anyways, Hydro Testing costs anywhere from $25-$35 depending on where you go. Some SCUBA shops will either do the Hydro on site or send it out to a Hydro facility.

When you look at any cylinder it will show the born on date (original Hydro date) by month and year. Example: 3/02
Most steel tanks are required to be tested every 5 years. Older fiber wrapped tanks every 3 years, newer fiber wrapped ones are done every 5 years. Some cylinders say 7 years. It depends on the manufacturer and DOT regulations. Just check the stamped dates and writing.

Steel is general more heavy than Fiber and Fiber is more fragile. It's important to keep your fiber cylinders covered to protect from dings and unraveling of strands.

If you bring a cylinder with an expired Hydro date, they have the right not to fill/should never fill it for you because of the danger it poses to them, yourself, and others. They should be checking the dates.

Any tanks that don't pass the Hydro test will be condemmed. The inspectors will strip the threads so a regulator/valve can't be installed on it ever again. Then they will discard it. If it passes Hydro (over 95%
do) then a new date will be stamped on or a new sticker will be placed on it with the next Hydro Due date.
Be resonsible with your own cylinders and check the dates and visually inspect the exterior for damage often. If you see any fibers unravelling don't use it.

Hope this helps you.

[Joni]

You want to be able to play all day, but how much do you shoot? A 68 size tank will get you about 600-700 shots if it's a 3000 psi, and about 1200-1300 shots if it's a 4500 psi, and you can fill it that much. If you get the custom ULE, you will be amazed in comparison to your TM98c. It's faster, will never chop, just as much of a workhorse as the TM, smaller...I could go on forever =). Don't get me wrong, I think the TM98c is a very nice marker for it's purpose, but the custom ULE is just better in so many ways.

BTW, it's not a marker that is for tinkering. There simply is nothing to do =). Sure, you can spend a little time when you first get it to tune the ULT and lvl10 to perfection, but after that, all you have to do is make sure it's clean and lubed up.

[craltal]

Please forgive me if you already know this.

When HPA tanks are described, the 2 numbers stand for the volume of gas the tank holds in cubic inches and the second is the maximum pressure that it can be filled to, so a 68/3000 holds 68 cubic inches of air at a maximum pressure of 3000 psi.

Find out where you can get the tank filled locally before you buy. You might find out that there isn't anywhere local that can fill a 4500 psi tank. SCUBA shops, paintball fields, paintball shops are places to check. If noone can fill a 4500, you need to decide if it's worth the extra $$ to get a tank that you can't fill all the way.

Get at least a fiber wrapped 68ci tank. Steel will make your marker so back heavy. You might also want to consider a drop forward and an on/ off assembly.

(BTW, spend the extra $20 and get the ULT- Ultra Light Trigger-factory installed...)

[Remake101]

Hey man i started out same as you with a tippmann 98c. Great gun, still use it for woodsball games. Then i got an automag from a friend. I run CO2 on it just fine. Dont use CO2 in temperatures lower than 45 degrees C. It messes up the gun. I would just get an expansion chamber or remote line, both is even better. The mag your gonna get for the same price as ur tippmann is a classic. NEVER use CO2 on a retro or x valve. Nitro is cheaper to fill than CO2, but the tanks can be quite costly. Your local airsmith would also be able to antisiphon your tank for like 10 bucks or soemthing like that. If your really set on nitro look on ebay. You should be able to get a small steel tank for about 50 bucks. I have one of those but i run out very quickly......

[Winchester7000]

Found this one on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...670116961&rd=1

Is it pretty decent?

[craltal]

FYI

You can buy that brand tank, same size and capacity for $205.50 from action village. They are listing the regular price as $210, not the $350 the guy in the auction is.

You could buy a Java tank from the same place for $180 with free shipping.

Just wanted to give you some info so you can make an informed decision about whether to bid on that or not.