Spyder Mag

[Bobsbarricades]

actually the classic valve is supposidly capable of 16 bps....

[tonybhall]

thanks bob.

I was not sure how fast it could go. 16 bps is pretty fast.

[Bobsbarricades]

thats what i said when i herd that. one of the reasons im really intrested in this. I have a classic valve with 2 o-rings inside the on/off housing, and that is aparently the only guidelines to have a working ule trigger, so if I can get a ULE kit, and a good deal on spyder trigger frame... i can get me an e-mag for about 100 bucks

[the electrician]

I've got a bit of knowledge in this department myself.

I built my own electro grip for the mag, and I have been doing some tests and modifications, running it on a classic valve.

I have found that putting an RT on/off in a classic valve reduces the needed force to actuate the sear by about half. this also does not hinder the recharge rate of the gun. when using a lvl 10, the RT on/off(a bit modified to work in the classic valve) and the electroframe, I have been able to get the cps up to 18 cps, without any noticeable drop in sound, but the actual bps is around 16 bps(just a bit above).

the ULT on/off will get around 11 bps on a mechanical classic valve mag, and when modified, it can do 13 bps on an electro conversion. this is because the sear does not have to push the trigger pin against the trigger, and the trigger finger, when it is returning. this let's it recharge a bit quicker.

now if you are using this spyder frame, modified to work on a mag, and it is capped at 13 bps, then with a bit of modification, you should be able to get the ULT on/off to do 13 in a classic valve, and the two would work well together. you could feed it with w revy, use a lvl 10 and consistently get a good 12 bps out of it no problem.

the only thing that concerns me about using this spyder electro frame on a mag is the solenoid energize time. can you adjust the energize time? you really should use atleat 30 msec of solenoid energize time, to keep from having abnormal wear, and perhaps lvl 10 problems. I know that the really short energize time that the spyder frame probably has, is very efficient on battery consumption, but it could be at a price of wear and tear.

sometimes the combination of a force feed loader and a really short solenoid energize time(like in a hyperframe) can cause the lvl10 bolt to not reset properly. essentially the sear is able to comeback and hit the bolt, (if the lv 10 is doing it's job and stopping on a ball) and put pressure on it. this pressure along with the pressure of the paint from the force feed loader can slow the lvl 10 down so much, it does not reset when it stops a chop, or it actually limits the bps of the gun. just something to look out for.

on a side note, the reason that an electro frame can get more shots per charge if you use the ULT on/off, is not because the solenoid really draws less current. it's because as the battery is drained the voltage goes down right? so the current draw goes down to. that means less power or force is generated by the solenoid. but since the ULT doesn't require as muc force, the solenoid is still able to do the job.


the other thing is if you are running an RT/X valve, and you can out shoot the stock spyder board, and you want to go faster, then perhaps you should think about a morlock board? that's what I use in all my homemade electro guns. no bps cap.

all in all, pretty cool stuff Tonybhall.

[tonybhall]

I've got a bit of knowledge in this department myself.

the other thing is if you are running an RT/X valve, and you can out shoot the stock spyder board, and you want to go faster, then perhaps you should think about a morlock board? that's what I use in all my homemade electro guns. no bps cap.

all in all, pretty cool stuff Tonybhall.

Thanks for all the info. We have looked into the T-board, the IS board and the XSF board. We are leaning towards the T-board. While it is capped at 36 bps, I don't think there's much chance of outrunning it.

Can you post up a link to info on the Morlock Board?

THanks again,

[ZapTheMad]

I did a Dragun frame conversion over the weekend and had a ton o fun! I am running it on an X-Valved ULE Mag. It works OK with the ULT but it doesn't work at all with the stock on/off. It runs up to 12-13 CPS. Anything higher and it skips (I have a 20 BPS LCD version). It seems that the sear is not resetting fast enough for the higher rates of fire. I am going to experiment a bit more after I get my adjustable tank and I think I can get the CPS up with a little more input pressure. I may also try increasing voltage using the stock on/off.

I decided to hack up a plastic frame first. The nice thing about this mod is that the sear is not modified at all. All you need to do is take the trigger rod off and the solenoid sits right against the sear.

Heres a couple pics. The top has been milled flat and this also lets the sear get deep enough into the frame to contact the solenoid plunger. The front is also milled off so there's no need to modify anything on the gun to make it work. The solenoid is reversed and the cavity is enlarged. I had to make a spacer to keep the solenoid from moving because the plastic frame is not capable of clamping the solenoid hard enough to keep it stationary. Another nice feature of the Dragun solenoid is that the actuator rod is pressed into the plunger. I am able to change the length of the plunger to make it push the sear a little farther by driving the rod out a little bit.

[tonybhall]

Nice work Zap, keep us updated!

[warfrik]

I thought this might be a good idea. Try using an M92 frames for a dragun tes w/c is capped to 20 bps. Dragun frames and spyder frames are about the same.

[Bobsbarricades]

hmmm, i wonder if anybody can do this with a 32 degrees frame. Those are like 50 bucks new. spend another 20 on a t-board... and ur still under a kingman. any thoughts?


the electrician - could you possibly PM me, or post somewhere HOW you build your own internals for an electronic trigger frame. I figure you can buy a t-board, then go to radio shack and buy the part that actually moves, then go buy the 50g switch and be pretty set, but I dont know how to hook all the wires up. Thanks if you can, oh well if you can't.

[Paintball_4_Fun]

I did a Dragun frame conversion over the weekend and had a ton o fun! I am running it on an X-Valved ULE Mag. It works OK with the ULT but it doesn't work at all with the stock on/off. It runs up to 12-13 CPS. Anything higher and it skips (I have a 20 BPS LCD version). It seems that the sear is not resetting fast enough for the higher rates of fire. I am going to experiment a bit more after I get my adjustable tank and I think I can get the CPS up with a little more input pressure. I may also try increasing voltage using the stock on/off.

I decided to hack up a plastic frame first. The nice thing about this mod is that the sear is not modified at all. All you need to do is take the trigger rod off and the solenoid sits right against the sear.

Heres a couple pics. The top has been milled flat and this also lets the sear get deep enough into the frame to contact the solenoid plunger. The front is also milled off so there's no need to modify anything on the gun to make it work. The solenoid is reversed and the cavity is enlarged. I had to make a spacer to keep the solenoid from moving because the plastic frame is not capable of clamping the solenoid hard enough to keep it stationary. Another nice feature of the Dragun solenoid is that the actuator rod is pressed into the plunger. I am able to change the length of the plunger to make it push the sear a little farther by driving the rod out a little bit.

i dont get it how does the sear fit in?
can i see a pic with the sear on it?

[budhall088]

Are the pics of the original Spyder frame mod ever going to be posted up here? I have a half hacked up Spyder frame that I could have just left on the Spyder. I really would appreciate those pics.

[tonybhall]

Update

*************UPDATE**********************

Sorry for the delay. Daniel is working on my Mag this weekend. I hope he'll have it done tomorrow (Sat.). Since his was done on a trial and error basis and was not done with cosmetics in mind, he did not want to post those pics. We had hoped he would be able to post pics as he was working on mine. But, something was wrong with the memory card for his digital camera. He says he thinks his son spilled somthing on it. If he gets it done on Saturday I will take pics of it with my film camera and try to get them posted early next week. I will try to get good close ups of the Sear, the top of the trigger frame, the ESP plunger and any other part that is modified.

Also, for more regular updates, check this thread http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=533969
it is the most active and has the latest updates.

Here is where we are right now. Daniel is doing mine this weekend. He should have it done by Saturday afternoon (we hope). I will try to get pics and maybe a new better video on Sunday and have them all posted early next week. Also, once Daniel is finished with mine he will have a real good idea of the time involved to mass produce these mods and the amount he will need to charge (he thinks somewhere between $50-$75 plus shipping). Look for an official announcement on the price and how to get yours done by Daniel. He or I will be contacting each person by pm that expressed an interest and will also be posting a thread in the buy, sell, trade forum.

Stay tuned