mag technical questions- amount of time air flows out of the bolt? and..

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  • the electrician
    Registered User
    • Jan 2002
    • 542

    #16
    I've thought about that too, Dryden.

    the fact that it is rated for 3000 psi is actually kind of impressive. I don't know of any other guns that are. I've given it 2000 psi before, and it didn't have any leaks or problems, except for a spike in velocity every now and then. probably due to well used internal reg parts.

    I'm nitpickin' at you now rrfireblade, but most cocker valves I've seen on new cockers, use a 5/16" orafice at the stem seal, and some use a reduced shaft.with a 5/16" hole, you don't really need the reduced shaft to have more flow area than a 1/4" hole. but the real gig is the flow port that goes from the valve seat to the breech. it is a 1/4". (I've though about making it a bit larger too, but just a bit. much like what AKA has done. match it to the rest of the flow ports through the valve. like porting the heads on a hot rod engine.)

    a matrix has a huge port. it is actually .410", with a .177" stem in the middle. this gives it about the approx. flow area of .107 sq. in. about that of a 3/8" hole. but the flaw with the matrix is the absolutely huge expansion area the gas travels through. approx. .82 cu. in. that makes it lose alot of energy, and limits it's efficiency.

    the new shaocker actually have the best gas release design. several holes all around the bolt release the air instantly. using only 8.5 cu. in. of air. it operates at 200 psi. but by design, it will never be able to be really efficient, due to the large amount of o-ring friction and high cocking force needed to operate.

    with the mag, I've thought about using the ram to push the bolt back, but the more I integrate the idea into the design, the more it starts becoming a spool valve mag.
    not that that's bad, just wouldn't use the existing valve at all.

    I've though about changing the placement of the power tube o-ring. either putting it farther up the power tube, putting one on the end of the bolt piston. this would keep the bolt from leaking as it moves back and forth, but what would it do to the guns operation? cause bolt stick problems?

    I think I'm going to have to sit down and take some measurements. bolt movement, bolt piston placement, actual operating pressure etc...



    snertz- the problem with mty idea is that a larger surface area, can leak more too. how much depends on whether or not the pressure can be lowered because of the larger bolt piston, and how much it can be lowered. lower pressure would not leak as much air, but it has more area to leak so it could possibly leak the same amount.

    what you describe for a power tube tip, is the old power tube tip design. the nwere ones, the "euro-tip" are rounded, the old ones are not. I don't think it helped flow at all. actualy the new euro tips seem better. but perhaps turbulence could be reduce by making cone shaped end on the bolt piston? that too, might just get in the way of flow.
    ~E~

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    • Snertz
      H O O N
      • Mar 2002
      • 926

      #17
      I see; I'm not too familiar with the newer euro tip, last time I dealt with a lvl 7 mag was quite a while ago. Do you have a picture of this newer style tip?

      You mentioned an oring on the stem of the bolt stem. From what I can recall, the last time I looked at the stem from a lvl 7 bolt, there was a small oring on the stem, but I don't think it was really big enough to proide an effective seal in the powertube.

      Again, not sure if this was just an old bolt I saw or soemthing, but it was of the long nose style bolts. Perhaps increasing the size of this oring slightly would acheive a better seal with negligible drag on the bolt itself? Or perhaps expirimenting with different oring materials would yeild one that can seal effectively yet have very low drag.

      I think you're right in that a cone shaped end on the bolt stem, or perhaps a shape that is the same as that of the powertube tip would reduce turbulence. ie. cone shape on the end of the bolt stem with the olders style cone/slanted shaped powertube tip; This would have both surfaces parallel to each other, and less of a disruption into the air stream.
      Last edited by Snertz; 08-08-2004, 12:43 PM.

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