4.0 software

[trains are bad]

look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

[Beemer]

Maybe so

look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

But it is not By ASTM Safety standards, of course those dont MATTER or people just dont care, and there in lies the future of PaintBall Safety and Us.

[trains are bad]

....or maybe some people don't care because FA is not necessarily unsafe, just different, new and politically incorrect.

[Dayspring]

Well it wasn't a Wayne Dollack or MXS one, I can say that for certain...

look who knows so much....

I myself have played in a scenario game where FA was allowed.

[cabldawg]

Hate to do this to ya Dayspring, but MXS has allowed FA but there was a 11bps limit.

[Miscue]

I get to answer that!

The solenoid dwell time was shortened which helped the marker at speeds over 20 bps. With 4.0 you needed to boost the input pressure on the tank so that the recharge assisted the noid in resetting the sear. With 4.01 the solenoid kicks in sooner and you can lower your input pressure back down a bit. Basically you can use a preset tank with greater success if you shoot over 20 bps with 4.01 than 4.0.

do I get a cookie for that?

Eadtf- The source code is kept under lock in key and I get the very distinct impression that one of us outsiders will have it when we pry it from Tom's cold lifeless fingers and not before...

Nope, no cookie. There are 3 separate, partially related sources of unintended FA. 4.01 gets rid of the low battery FA condition, by not firing during a brown-out. I made a minor mistake involving how stuff is timed in 4.00 that I fixed in 4.01 - an unnatural delay that resulted in missed shots on very rare occassion. But really, 4.00 and 4.01 are virtually identical except that 4.01 will metaphorically get that very last bit of toothpaste out of the tube - none of you will notice, I did it for me - being a perfectionist at times.

What makes you think TK has the source code?

The software is not responsible for the FA, it's an EMI issue with the solenoid and HES sensor. 4.00 had 2 sources of FA that it did not cure (assuming solenoid wires are flipped correctly). 4.01 had 1 source of full auto. 4.20 has 0, but I've yet to confirm this with 100% certainty - it seems to have completely cured the problem so far, but I haven't tested a bunch of markers yet either.

Unfortunately, 4.20 will also not be supported by AGD or be publicly available even if it is found to be a solution after more testing. 4.x was kinda dead a while ago, and I did 4.20 on my own - because it felt like unfinished business, and I was torqued that my software was unusable. Now in my mind... "It is done," and it won't torment me as that "unfinished" thing that I put hundreds of hours into.

I didn't understand the problem before, like I do now - which is partly why I didn't find a fix before. And believe it or not, this very thread is what got me thinking about the software again - and I thought of how to fix it while I was driving down the freeway.

[BlackVCG]

Better yet if anyone could mod the board and make a plugin ROM Chip with each of these Modes on them, this would allow you to keep it tournament legal since you would have to pull the grip to change the chip for the different rates of fire you want.

Considering the fact that the chip is surface soldered to the board, this will not work.

[Z-man]

Thanks for the corrections Miscue.

[Miscue]

Thanks for the corrections Miscue.

Sure thing. You asked in PM why there was a new revision, if AGD isn't going to support it. Well, first of all "I" worked on it independently of AGD knowledge or approval. As it stands, 4.01 cannot get released regardless. 4.20 (assuming it works completely) at least makes it a small possibility, versus 0% possibility.

TK is going to throw his shoe at me.

[Beemer]

Whaaaatttttttt.......hijack,,sorry

....or maybe some people don't care because FA is not necessarily unsafe, just different, new and politically incorrect.

Not necessarily unsafe. Maybe you are uninformed. 41 of your peers in and out of the industry says it is.[ASTM Standards] Want to take a guess on who some of those people are?

Different and new...... I dont think so. I started playing the year you were born 1985.
We were using SMGs full auto, legal field. Ever see one of those? Ever shoot one? Know why they were banned? Hardly new or different.

politically incorrect..........What do you mean? Its all about Safety

Its not people dont care because, Its just people dont care.

Hate to do this to ya Dayspring, but MXS has allowed FA but there was a 11bps limit.

How did they control or monitor this???????????

[eadtf]

Wow lots of new posts...

O.k. here is my 2 cents:

Eadtf- The source code is kept under lock in key and I get the very distinct impression that one of us outsiders will have it when we pry it from Tom's cold lifeless fingers and not before...

What does he care? If AGD is not going to continue developing software for the markers they sold at a cost of well over $1000+ then I think the "Source Code" should be on the net in a .zip file. And I think anyone who knows what they are doing with it should be able to make $$$ for maintaining it. O.k. now I am on my soapbox...

Please don't take me wrong I love AGD...

I am sure you have heard this before. But I bought one of the first RTs with the "Lifetime Warranty," at the time I was willing to pay the extra dollars for a great marker with a great warranty, from a great company. In the six years that I have owned it I have sent it in once for a sheered pin on the bolt and a tune-up. Since then they went to a 5-Star program that I thought was BS and now when I look on the net my marker serial number no longer is covered by my warranty at all. I imagine that some people were taking advantage of the warranty and that started to cost AGD. That's too bad, but it is a great product and if it is well taken care of it does not require factory support.

Next AGD comes out with the E-Mag and X-Mag, great markers. You can see videos all over the net of how awesome they are and how fast they shoot, and how they don't chop paint. But then there is a lawsuit [Read About it Here], which is total BS but what can AGD, I would have stopped making the Electro trigger as well to keep from being sued as well. However, I would still offer support for the ones I sold.

Now I know they will fix it if it breaks. And yes AGD is probably one of the best Customer Service companies, but they should continue to work on their software. As I see it, it was left at 3.2 with the attitude of "leave well enough alone!"

Last week I called AGD and asked about a future release of new software. I was told that as for now there is no plans and nothing in the works to fix 4.0 and 4.1. The Tech said it was recalled because it was programmed with Ramping Software built in. For those that may not know, ramping software allows a few extra shots to be fired when you get on the trigger fast. Then I asked for a few more specifics about the software options in 3.2. Basically in 3.2 the electronic features are pretty limited and with the exception of preventing a chopped ball electronically the rest do very little.

I can't help but feeling a little abandoned by AGD although I like their products.

----Steps of Box-----

You know that burst modes and full auto modes aren't allowed in scenarios or in regular play.

Not True!!! I suppose it depends where you play and whom you play with. I know more people with full auto Angels then I know people with "single-shot" angels. They simply open the grip and change the setting depending on where they play, but the important thing is, THEY HAVE A CHOICE! AGD has robbed me of that choice...

The software is not responsible for the FA, it's an EMI issue with the solenoid and HES sensor. 4.00 had 2 sources of FA that it did not cure (assuming solenoid wires are flipped correctly). 4.01 had 1 source of full auto. 4.20 has 0, but I've yet to confirm this with 100% certainty - it seems to have completely cured the problem so far, but I haven't tested a bunch of markers yet either.

Want to test 4.20 on my marker?

Considering the fact that the chip is surface soldered to the board, this will not work.

Well I agree the board is a bit tight, but I know it is possible to attach a few wires to the board somewhere, and remote a small plug-in module, that would house a swappable ROM chip, that could be programmed with the code.. LMFAO... God this sounds stupid since I have no idea what I am talking about exactly, but I have seen it done on an Playstation 2. "If there is a will there is a way!!!"


[QUOTE=Beemer][QUOTE]

I played with the SMG-68, sucked when you lost your little five round clips!!!

My final words in this posting:

Miscue how did you get the code, did/do you work for AGD?

Pat

[sig11]

Sure thing. You asked in PM why there was a new revision, if AGD isn't going to support it. Well, first of all "I" worked on it independently of AGD knowledge or approval. As it stands, 4.01 cannot get released regardless. 4.20 (assuming it works completely) at least makes it a small possibility, versus 0% possibility.

TK is going to throw his shoe at me.

Need some debugging help? <I>Have programmer, ASM experience, and free time.</I>
(I'm sure you're tired of people asking. :/)
Lee

[Miscue]

O.k. here is my 2 cents:

What does he care? If AGD is not going to continue developing software for the markers they sold at a cost of well over $1000+ then I think the "Source Code" should be on the net in a .zip file. And I think anyone who knows what they are doing with it should be able to make $$$ for maintaining it. O.k. now I am on my soapbox...


Last week I called AGD and asked about a future release of new software. I was told that as for now there is no plans and nothing in the works to fix 4.0 and 4.1. The Tech said it was recalled because it was programmed with Ramping Software built in. For those that may not know, ramping software allows a few extra shots to be fired when you get on the trigger fast. Then I asked for a few more specifics about the software options in 3.2. Basically in 3.2 the electronic features are pretty limited and with the exception of preventing a chopped ball electronically the rest do very little.

I can't help but feeling a little abandoned by AGD although I like their products.

----Steps of Box-----


My final words in this posting:

Miscue how did you get the code, did/do you work for AGD?

Pat

How did I get the code? I wrote it, and I'm the only one that has it. TK asked me to write it, and it has some code from my original Q1.1 software that I wrote for myself - intended for personal use - being unsatisfied with 3.2. I wasn't going to wait for AGD to come up with something better, and I wanted good software for my EMag.

No way in hell will it be released, and it has zero to do with being possessive of it. Those who are capable of "maintaining" the software, can write their own to begin with - and do not need the software... or can use a different board altogether. And, I wrote the prototype in two days (and another software engineer on here did the same for himself with personal software, with very little help from me) - with this amount of time in mind, it would take you longer to figure out what I did than to start over... and this desire for released code makes no sense to me - only the incompetent would be interested in it - who should not have it.

Those who cannot write it on their own will not be able to make significant changes - and those changes that they can do can make it unsafe, exhibit random behavior, not function correctly, and/or damage components of the marker. And if someone gets hurt with faulty software that was the result of improper modifications of AGD software, AGD would care - and even more so when they have to go to court over liability issues. This software does not let you harmlessly play Tetris on your PC - it controls a device that shoots projectiles - and there are safety issues.

Everyone who wants to make "changes" to the code, so far has the same goals: Full Auto or Burst mode - but don't fully admit to it, or lightly mention it. If that's what you want, write it yourself. FA takes like a dozen instructions - burst mode is a bit more complicated. You would need to do the exact same thing within 4.x code anyway.

The tech you spoke to is misinformed - I'd like you to tell me who it was you talked to so he can be straightened out. It was recalled due to markers going FA at random due to an EMI issue.

It is not "ramping" software. "Ramping" software exhibits a FA cadence - because once you pass a certain threshold - it ramps up to a steady X bps and it doesn't really matter what your fingers are doing as long as they are maintaining the speed needed to be over that threshold. You can tell when people have ramped boards when they are shooting really fast and the rhythm is dead on. Anyone who has used 4.x can tell you that it does not do this.

See for yourself: http://homepage.mac.com/zvetter/.Mov...%20Testing.mov
(Right Click->Save As)

[Miscue]

Need some debugging help? <I>Have programmer, ASM experience, and free time.</I>
(I'm sure you're tired of people asking. :/)
Lee

There are no bugs - the software has been flawless for quite some time. The hardware has been the problem. If you can make a very small, cheap, and effective degausser - then you'll have my attention.

[paintpiggie]

MISCUE! YOU'RE MY HERO!!!!!