Timing a cocker

[Evil1]

I just got an old school cocker today after not owning a cocker for 6 years. I forgot most of the things to do to fix them and get them running right again and was wondering if their are any tips or cool tricks to keep in mind while working on it? One other quick question I have is: WHen you pull the trigger when the gun is cocked and NOT aired up, Is it normal for the hammer to hit the valve pretty softly?

[MagManULE]

hey man whats up. When I time my cocker I like to look at all the external things like the back block length and bolt position and trigger plate settings before I even pick up my allen keys. When looking at the back block make sure the marker is degassed and then just push it as far forward as it will go. There should be about an 1/8 of an inch gap between it and the body. You adjust it buy taking out the bolt and the cocking rod and turning the block on the ram rod. The bolt is just as easy, its travel is adjusted by the cocking rods end cap. with the marker degassed still and the bolt and cocking rod in pull the back block to cock the marker and with the back block resting against the cocking rod end cap look down in the breach and you want to see just the smallest portion of the tip of your bolt sticking in. These two settings are all about working your ram as little as possible and ensuring the gun feeds when it cycles. In my experience working at a store I've noticed no one pays and particular attention to these critical settings. The trigger plate can screw up your velocity and your timing if your frame doesn't have set screws or the set screws aren't set at all. If the stock frame is still on your "classic" cocker I would consider a benchmark or dye 45. I would stick with the slider cause with a roller sear I think they feel better than a swing IMHO. Anyway after those things are looked at your ready to time. Just an after thought here make sure your velocity screw is no more than half way in if you cant achieve velocity without cranking your velocity screw all the way in then the spring is bad or your inline hpr is a runaway. I set the hammer lug height by putting it as far up as I can without it skipping over the sear when I "snap" the hammer. What I mean is pulling the cocking rod and releasing it quickly so as to "throw" the weight of the hammer and the force of the spring at the sear. (I hope that makes sense to you). Once the lug is set air that beast up and slowly pull the trigger to the rear, do this especially slow and see what it does. If it recocks before the gun fires you need to adjust the timing rod sleeve. If your gun is stock it probably does not have a threaded timing rod and I would say you should absolutely get one. Timing a cocker without a threaded rod is hell. I hate doing it anyway. Well I've written just about enough for one post hope this helps. If I wasnt clear anywhere or just plain didn't answer a question you have just post here or IM me. Good luck and have fun with a great gun.

[Evil1]

The timing seems to be pretty good with the recock and firing, but the velocity is real low and I can't get it to go up. Its as if the hammer isn't hitting the valve hard enough. Sometimes the gun also leaks alot down the barrel until I cock it. You can fire the gun pretty fast, just the velocity is probably only like 100fps. It may sound insane, but I'm not sure how to make the hammer hit harder. I printed this page before I posted this. Thanks for all of the good info Magman.

[elprup]

Visual aids are your friends (right-click>Save As...): http://www.cockertech.com/videos/cockertiming.wmv

[jewie27]

Sorry but it's the Automag tech forum. I think there should be a separate 'Cocker forum.

[MagManULE]

With you velocity problem there are a couple of things that could cause that. If someone put an aftermarket spring kit in there before you got it the springs could be mismatched (a heavier than necessary main spring and a light valve spring) or what i think is more likely your inline hpr is set too low. Unless of course you run it on co2 or are not using a reg which throws that whole theory out the window. Your inline (assuming you have one should be around 350 psi or so). Just to clarify I hear what your saying about the hammer hitting softly, but it really doesnt feel like a whole lot with the gun degassed normaly, the only thing to do if the reg isnt the problem is change the spring which is relativly inexpensive so no biggy. Did you look at your timing i mentioned it in passing but if its off enough that would give you velocity issues. Let me know whats up and give me some more info I like old school cockers I'm a little interested about your setup is it a threaded timing rod. Oh and Jewie chill out guy, People shoot all kinds of guns in this forum, even though its a mag forum these same people read these posts and post here because the users here are friendly and knowledgable about most anything so dont pull a pbnation on this guy for posting where he may actually get an answer. If I'm wrong with this opinion, mods by all means correct me.

[Evil1]

Mag Man,by the timing rod do you meant the one that is hooked to the ram and the back block? Or the one that goes to the trigger and 3 way or the one in the back that cocks the gun? How do you get to the valve spring? I can't get the hammer out to get to it. When you take the beavertail off, the one piece comes out followed by a spring and the actual hammer won't come out due to the lug stopping it from passing the hole where the sear comes through. This cocker has seen better days, but my goal is to get her ripping again with out problems. The guy I got it from said it sat for a while. It has a single slider trigger, stock 3 way I believe, a ram with a swiveling head, and the reg on the front block is unknown. It has a knurled thumbscrew to adjust its pressure though. The inline hpr is stock too. It has a J&J hard chrome barrel and the old SP wood grips. I'm planning on keeping this gun mech and running it on nothing but compressed air. Oh yeah, I also got an old school pneu shroud for the front block from my friend. You don't see those anymore. For those that don't know, old cockers had an aluminum and foam rubber shroud that came stock on them to cover the pneumatics on the front.

[wigglesrewind]

it sounds like you need a stiffer main spring.

[MagManULE]

The timing rod connects the trigger plate to the 3 way, the cocking rod connects the hammer to the back block. To remove the hammer the lug has to be raised so it is at least flush with the bottom of the hammer. If your body has not been drilled (a body that old did not come with a hole through the top and bottom of the bolt tube) then you have to remove your trigger frame and the bottom of the lug will have a hex head.

[Evil1]

I got the cocker working this weekend. The timing is great now. I got the timing perfect. The cocking rod was threaded. The gun is not all that fast. The most I probably got out of it was maybe 6-7bps. The velocity was surprisingly consistent as well. It was about +/-4fps. The gun was really accurate even with 6 month old paint. I'm thinking about getting that front block where you can have 2 separate lprs so you can lower the recock psi real low. It was shooting really accurate too.