I don't understand the inconvenience of HPA.

[monkeyking]

Can someone explain to me why HPA tanks are so big? Why can't the gas be compressed more into a smaller package? Why isn't this an issue with CO2?

I ask because I've got a 9 oz. CO2 tank on a drop on my 68 and would love to put HPA on it, but even ignoring the money concern, I can't imagine how I'd balance the thing with one of those big honkin' tanks. I have it so it shoots just a touch up if I'm firing one-handed and there's no way I could do that with one o' them things on the back.

[Target Practice]

Can someone explain to me why HPA tanks are so big? Why can't the gas be compressed more into a smaller package? Why isn't this an issue with CO2?

I ask because I've got a 9 oz. CO2 tank on a drop on my 68 and would love to put HPA on it, but even ignoring the money concern, I can't imagine how I'd balance the thing with one of those big honkin' tanks. I have it so it shoots just a touch up if I'm firing one-handed and there's no way I could do that with one o' them things on the back.

It's not the tanks that limit the pressure so much as it is the regulators. It can be compressed, but then the higher psi would require better regs, and therefore more expensive. C02 is a liquid which then turns into a gas. It is only at around 800 psi in the tank, if I remember correctly.

It's really not that bad with HPA. I run HPA on my minimag, an it's just fine. Find someone at the field to try it out.

[Maggot6]

You can get really small hpa tanks, like the size of a 14 oz co2 tank. Some as small as 13 ci I think.

[monkeyking]

It's not the tanks that limit the pressure so much as it is the regulators.

Ah, thanks, that totally makes sense to me.

It is only at around 800 psi in the tank, if I remember correctly.

That would make sense. That's what HPA has to regulate down to, right?

You can get really small hpa tanks, like the size of a 14 oz co2 tank. Some as small as 13 ci I think.

Who makes such a thing? I'm very interested in that.

[Aleis]

Who makes such a thing? I'm very interested in that.

you can buy the tank here at White Wolf Airsmithing about mid way down the page but it doesn't include the regulator.

Compressed air tanks are so big simply because they are expensive. sounds kind of odd but think about it, the regulator part of a compressed air tank would cost mnimal about $70 and that for a cheap one, so the cost of the tank is near negligable so why pay a lot of money for a littel tank would you could get a bigger one for only slightly more, That and compressed air being the only option for tourny players who can shoot over 1000+ rounds a game need a big tank simply to get tehm thorugh one game.

[Orion33]

im amazed you can shoot co2 into a mag..when i had mine it froze up after like 10 shots no matter what

and you also realize your air generators at the local gas station go up to about 80 psi...these tanks are going to 3000 psi

and not many people can afford the $5000 generators required to compress the air









and anyway co2 is obsolete

[ttp_fan]

Actually, the other point to be made here is that CO2, when it's compressed, is a liquid. If you don't have either a remote line, expansion chamber and/or anti siphon on your setup, you are likely to suck liquid CO2 into your marker. Basically, the CO2 has to be given room to expand into a gas, thus providing the pressure required to fire the marker. That is why guns "freeze"up when they suck liquid CO2.
Now, in a HPA or N2 setup, the propellant, (Air or Nitrogen) is already compressed to a higher pressure than the CO2, but because of it's composition, still remains a gas. If you tried to compress it further to become a liquid and have smaller bottles, you would have it at such a extremely high pressure that the bottles would be obscenely expansive (to be able to contain the pressure) and the regulator to drop that to a usable pressure would also be very expensive and probably both would be subject to such regulation as to not be commercially available. Anyway, with HPA systems, you are getting either a 3000PSI, 4500PSI, or maybe even 5000PSI bottle that can hold the equivalent volume of gas to allow you to shoot roughly the same amount of shots as a CO2 tank.
Also, one other thing. A tank that could contain air in a liquid state would be so heavy, due to the necessary strenth requirements, that you would not want to carry it mounted to your marker.
Overall, most people will tell you that HPA is the better choice for regular players as it won't freese your marker and will give you a more consistent velocity shot after shot than CO2. The choice becomes yours hovever due to price and fill availability. If no one fills HPA near you, then you're stuck with CO2.

[Lurker27]

PV=nRT

Without too much detail, liquid is about 1/1000th the volume of equivalent gas. Huge generalization, etc, but for napkins calculus its what I use.

[Aleis]

PV=nRT

Without too much detail, liquid is about 1/1000th the volume of equivalent gas. Huge generalization, etc, but for napkins calculus its what I use.

actualy PV=nRT is for an ideal gass, meaning one that doesn't convert toa liquid state, this is impossible but basicly CO2 is far from an Ideal gas and therefor this equation "Technical" doesn't work very well with co2

[monkeyking]

you can buy the tank here at White Wolf Airsmithing about mid way down the page but it doesn't include the regulator.

Ah, thanks. That's better than the little one I found.

Compressed air tanks are so big simply because they are expensive. sounds kind of odd but think about it, the regulator part of a compressed air tank would cost mnimal about $70 and that for a cheap one, so the cost of the tank is near negligable so why pay a lot of money for a littel tank would you could get a bigger one for only slightly more, That and compressed air being the only option for tourny players who can shoot over 1000+ rounds a game need a big tank simply to get tehm thorugh one game.

Eh, I shoot a couple hundred balls a game, on the outside. I consider the ability to hit, aided by the balance of the marker, to be more important (and more cost effective) than shooting a lot with a marker that's hard to point where I want the balls to go.

Granted, I'm not actually good at paintball, so I may see the errors of my ways eventually. Until that happens, though, I prefer a marker that points at the other team instead of at the sky.

[Hotshot33610]

I play tight and rest the tank on my shoulder. If you cant hold your your marker straight with one, you need to lift weights or something, or you can just get a fiber-wrapped tank.

[monkeyking]

I play tight and rest the tank on my shoulder. If you cant hold your your marker straight with one, you need to lift weights or something, or you can just get a fiber-wrapped tank.

This guy is not without merit. The idea that, for some reason, the marker doesn't have to be balanced flies in the face of every piece of ergonomics done on a gun. PB markers don't have the kick of a gun, but the human factors, particularly balance, are the same.

Holding the marker straight isn't a matter of arm strength. It's a matter of being able to get it level and on target quickly. If it's balanced, you can do that faster.

A lot of woodsball guys put the tank forward so the CG of the marker is between the hands. I don't like that either: it means you can't fire it one handed without shootin' dirt. But under the forefinger, which is about three inches ahead of most markers I've seen, seems to work very nicely.

... plus, I'm using an old-style stainless Automag 68 and I don't want to add any more weight than I have to.