A blowback question...anybody???

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  • Aslan
    Don't Ban Me...Love Me
    • May 2005
    • 954

    #1

    A blowback question...anybody???

    Okay, I have a blowback marker and I have a question. I'm going to provide a little backstory:

    Okay, I have like 10 guns and was looking to sell one. I posted a poll on here to see which one of 4 I should sell. The overwhelming winner was my Rebel LE. It's a cheap Spyder clone...I used it one season...primarily it was a back-up to my Spyder awhile back. I kinda liked it the year I used it...it shot about 2bps faster than my Spyder and had a really comfortable grip.

    Anyways, I am a very honest guy when it comes to selling stuff. I always test out my markers before listing them on Ebay...I would never put something on there that I wasn't 100% sure was working well. So, I bring the Rebel to the local field and start playing with it. Every game...it chops like mad to the point where it jams.

    So, I get home, e-mail 32 degrees...long story short...they ask me to send it in. I get it back like 3 weeks later with a note that they replaced the spring with a lighter spring. Now that sort of bugged me because I had replaced the spring with a stiffer spring because it was shooting low (fps). I e-mailed them back and asked if they chronoed it when they fixed it and I asked if there was anything else I could do to get it shooting normal fps without chopping. The tech pretty much told me, "You shouldn't put too much money into this marker, you should save up and buy something better." What!?! This guy works for the company that makes the marker and he's telling me it's crap? That's comforting.

    Anyways, I've continued on my quest to get this marker working well...not so I can win tournaments with it...but so I can get it to the point where I can sell it to someone and not feel like I ripped them off.

    The technical problem is that if I add a stiffer spring, it chops. I tried using better paint, same result. I bought a Bob Long cyclone bolt, but the slot for the ball detent was on the wrong side. When I decrease the spring stiffness...the marker struggles to shoot 275 fpswith a hot CO2 tank.

    Anyways, I polished some of the internals and the inside of the marker to try and remove any burs. I changed out all of the o-rings. I'm hoping they are the right size, the 32 degrees tech department couldn't even steer me towards a replacement o-ring kit...??? Anyways, I also added a 32 degrees turbo valve...but...and here's my real question...I can't figure out if I put it in the right way.

    If anyone has installed a 32 degrees turbo valve on a blowback...I'd really appreciate knowing whether the opened section faces up (towards the bolt) or doewn (towards the air inlet).

    Sorry for the long story, but I was also thinking that if I explained the whole thing maybe someone would have additional suggestions.

    Thanks.
  • Webby
    Mersey Road Paintball
    • Jul 2005
    • 54

    #2
    A few things I need to know first,

    Can you fire single shots without chopping?

    How fast we're you firing? (an estimation)

    We're you using a gravity fed hopper?

    Comment

    • Maggot6
      Registered User
      • Aug 2004
      • 1527

      #3
      DId you spend more money on fixing it than it costs? If so, honest guy or not, it would be a mistake...

      Comment

      • Aslan
        Don't Ban Me...Love Me
        • May 2005
        • 954

        #4
        Originally posted by Aslan
        If anyone has installed a 32 degrees turbo valve on a blowback...I'd really appreciate knowing whether the opened section faces up (towards the bolt) or doewn (towards the air inlet).

        Thanks.
        Answered my own question...it goes face up...other wise the bottom screw doesn't screw in and the air leaks HORRENDOUSLY.

        Long story short...the turbo valve is completely USELESS! I'm starting to wonder if 32 degrees makes anything worth buying????

        Comment

        • Aslan
          Don't Ban Me...Love Me
          • May 2005
          • 954

          #5
          Originally posted by Webby
          A few things I need to know first,

          Can you fire single shots without chopping?

          How fast we're you firing? (an estimation)

          We're you using a gravity fed hopper?
          I can fire single shots without chopping. I can get 2-3 shots per second off. Once I get into the 4-7 bps range, I start having difficulties. I added my Revy...but still had problems in the 5-7 bps range.

          I want to try to stick with the gravity hopper on this marker because it's currently the back-up to my Spyder. And in order to play general class at one of the local fields, I need a marker with a standard hopper, no electronic triggers, and that runs on CO2.

          And all that aside...because if worse comes to worse I'll get a remote coil for my mag and slap a standard hopper on it...the thing that really pisses me off is this gun (The Rebel LE) worked awesome last season. It worked so well that I kept using it after I fixed my Spyder. It just makes me even more ticked off that now it's crapping out.

          And I hate to just throw it away...has anyone ever done that? Thrown a marker in the trash? I hate to throw expired CO2 tanks away and they aren't even safe to use once expired. But a marker? I just keep thinking that if I tinkered with it a little more I could get it...

          Comment

          • Aslan
            Don't Ban Me...Love Me
            • May 2005
            • 954

            #6
            Originally posted by Maggot6
            DId you spend more money on fixing it than it costs? If so, honest guy or not, it would be a mistake...
            It depends. I paid $85 for it 2-3 years ago. I've probably spent $50 thus far trying to get it to work.

            What ticks me off is, if I call Kingman about my Spyder...which is so old the Kingman tech on the other end actually said, "holy cow...that's an old one!" (probably 7-9 years old, Spyder One)...they can get me parts (most of the time for free) and they answer every question I have. When I contact AGD...same thing...5-7 year old automag classic...same great service. Even Pro Team Products provided great customer service on a VL Prodigy that I have...EXCELLENT customer service. But here's a guy at 32 degrees (National Paintball) that pretty much says their guns are trash after 3 years.

            But no...the only way I'll sell it when it's not working properly is just list it with no reserve on ebay and tell everyone it's not working. I probably won't get more than $10 for it...which is barely worth my time to run around and list it and ship it.

            Comment

            • ShocktoSanity
              Understand What?????
              • Jul 2005
              • 21

              #7
              Well you could try to get a stiffer spring and then slowly start to the cut off the coils untill you get your desired velocity. I have a Rebel Extreme laying around that I used to use. I've had it for 3 years no problems so I dunno then again if you have a vert feedneck go ahead and drill some holes in it. it will relieve blowback use a 3/16 steel bit and you should'nt ruine it. 4 holes near the base at opposite sides should be good.

              Comment

              • deathstalker
                Fnord!
                • Jun 2002
                • 1115

                #8
                You mention changing only one spring; have you tried different combinations of hammer and valve springs? Rather than using a stiffer hammer spring to increase velocity, try a lighter valve spring. This should allow you to use a lighter hammer spring, too, which might cut down on chops. Also, what is the condition of the detent? Maybe it is worn and allows the next paintball to sit a little lower than usual and that's the one that chops.

                Wow, I just realized how long it's been since I troubleshot a blowback. :) Ah, the good ol' days. :)

                Need a new sig pic? Click here!

                Comment

                • athomas
                  Of course it works-its AGD
                  • Jan 2002
                  • 8039

                  #9
                  that is exactly what I was going to mention. Lighten the valve spring rather than stiffening the bolt/hammer spring. That way you can keep the bolt force lower and still allow a larger charge of air out.
                  Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

                  Comment

                  • jewie27
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2001
                    • 1275

                    #10
                    check the paint/barrel match. I bet it didn't chop before you used the last kind of paint that you shot with it. Also you ball detents could be worn out.

                    Comment

                    • Aslan
                      Don't Ban Me...Love Me
                      • May 2005
                      • 954

                      #11
                      Great Answers

                      You guys should work for 32 degrees...their only response is to throw it away.

                      Okay, new ball detent...I'll try to find one. The one that is in there was fine when it started chopping...but after I tried the Bob Long bolt, I ended up chopping the detent a little bit with the groove on the bolt being on the wrong side.

                      Okay, I cut the main spring slightly. As for the valve spring, are you saying that I should go with a lighter valve spring? That's doable. Maybe I'll drop the valve spring to a medium from a hard and see what happens. I'll leave the main spring stiff and see what I can chrono it at. I didn't realize that lowering the valve spring increased velocity opposite to how the main spring works.

                      Great comments guys! I'll try this stuff out and see what happens!

                      Comment

                      • jewie27
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2001
                        • 1275

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Aslan
                        You guys should work for 32 degrees...their only response is to throw it away.

                        Okay, new ball detent...I'll try to find one. The one that is in there was fine when it started chopping...but after I tried the Bob Long bolt, I ended up chopping the detent a little bit with the groove on the bolt being on the wrong side.

                        Okay, I cut the main spring slightly. As for the valve spring, are you saying that I should go with a lighter valve spring? That's doable. Maybe I'll drop the valve spring to a medium from a hard and see what happens. I'll leave the main spring stiff and see what I can chrono it at. I didn't realize that lowering the valve spring increased velocity opposite to how the main spring works.

                        Great comments guys! I'll try this stuff out and see what happens!
                        no prob, that's what AO is for. We can be like brothas from other mothas.

                        Comment

                        • mobsterboy
                          Mr.StealYoDallara

                          • Aug 2004
                          • 2371

                          #13
                          What you say...
                          Originally posted by Aslan
                          Long story short...the turbo valve is completely USELESS! I'm starting to wonder if 32 degrees makes anything worth buying????
                          What I hear...
                          Originally posted by Aslan
                          Long story short...Blowbacks are completely USELESS! I'm starting to wonder if Anyone makes anything worth buying????
                          I actually thought that exact thing when my imp broke, only about smartparts
                          RAWR
                          Dallara Den

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