Can rifled barrels really make paintballs spin?

[Aslan]

reason

The only reason I can think of why a longer barrel will be more accurate than a shorter one GIVEN THE SAME QUALITY PAINT TO BARREL MATCH...would be that the object (especially a paintball) is subject to forces that throw it off target once it leaves the barrel. As long as it's in the barrel, it will go straight. I don't think that can be argued.

Now, once it leaves the barrel, it's subject to wind, air, and gravity. Defects in the ball, the shape of the ball, and anything else that can negatively affect it now will. The longer barrel doesn't do much, but it allows another 2-4 inches of straight travel before the ball is subject to these negative forces.

Now if you think about it graphically...the moment the ball leaves the barrel...it starts to decline...so by the time a ball leaving a 12 inch barrel gets 4 inches (the point at which the other ball leaves the 16 inch barrel), it's already slightly off target where as the ball leaving the 16 inch barrel is still travelling straight because it has yet to leave the barrel.

That's my idea anyway...it seems like it makes sense...to me.

As to distance...I actually think you'll get similar distances with long and short barrels because of drag. For example, a barrel longer than 16 inches is usually not recommended because the sides of the barrel actually start to slow the ball down as it travels through the barrel. In other words, the forces propelling the ball have to be turned up to adjust for the effects of the walls of the barrel. Now, I do think that there will be some balance between the effects of the barrel walls and the effect of gravity (on balls fired out of shorter barrels)...but I don't think you can get more distance out of a longer barrel.

[usagi_tetsu]

*sigh* Must we rehash this argument every month or two? Okay, read this, all of it. All 17 pages of it. All you can hope to achieve with changing barrels and paint and regulators and valves and whatnot is consistency, so at least you're consistently inaccurate and reduce all the major variations from shot to shot as much as possible.

Now, am I saying you should not spend your money on a 22" rifled barrel? Well, if you ask me, then I'll truthfully tell you "no, I think it's a waste of money". However, as I've wasted more than my fair share of money on this little hobby of ours, who am I to tell you you shouldn't buy it? If you want to buy it, by all means do so and happy paintballing to you. Just realize that as long as this sport has been around, almost everything has been thought of or tried at some time or another. Rifled barrels aren't new. 22" barrels aren't new. But most everyone in the sport tends to use smoothbore barrels with an average length of 12 to 14". Why do you think that is?

[FARMER00]

For PixiGuru i never said it would shoot farther if anything the longer one shoots shorter because of the friction. I said it is more accurate. I agree with aslan's thoery on accuracy with the 4 inch difference oh, and by the way I was shooting marbs when i was comparin the two

also now that ive read your spin argument i may be inclined to think that the crazy accuracy may not be from the rifled barrel but just from the length. and i did the test of the broken ball and the streaks followed the spiral

[ThePixelGuru]

Farmer00, I never said you claimed longer barrels shot farther, just that it was as rediculous a claim as saying your special 22" rifled barrel actually increased accuracy because of the spin it imparted on paintballs. But while we're on long/short barrels, you guys are overcomplicating this. A ball leaves a 10" barrel at 300FPS. It goes, say, 200'. A ball leaves a 22" barrel at 300FPS. Assuming the previous measurement of 200' with the 10" barrel is correct, this one goes 201'. It's basically shooting from one foot closer to your target. Other than efficiency (and bunker manipulation/poking through brush), that's the only difference. Not a huge improvement, and only significant if you're nitpicking.

[shades]

ghost flanker - no... no... no... no... no... No.

shades - dear god, turn off the sarcasm and don't encourage them!

Dear God is right. Please let these good people see the LIGHT. Fundemental physics usually backs up any claims made HERE. HERE the HIPE IS laid to rest. Here truth WILL RULE. I have been on this site for over six Years and I find refreshing FACT is what binds the members of this site. Not the BS of Other PB sites. We do not BUY HIPE that is why we own the best marker EVER made.
Rant ended.
and me? Sarcastic? Who Me? Never. Oh No Not me. Hee hee.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have seen this post in the past six years. Please use search.

[DoomWithAnXmag]

Dear God is right. Please let these good people see the LIGHT. Fundemental physics usually backs up any claims made HERE. HERE the HIPE IS laid to rest. Here truth WILL RULE. I have been on this site for over six Years and I find refreshing FACT is what binds the members of this site. Not the BS of Other PB sites. We do not BUY HIPE that is why we own the best marker EVER made.
Rant ended.
and me? Sarcastic? Who Me? Never. Oh No Not me. Hee hee.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have seen this post in the past six years. Please use search.

*shaking head* Ya know... as I was writing that I was thinking to myself *self, we have been over this before and no one listened to reason that time why bother going through it again* Yet I did it anyway. Now would you say that is just a refusal to sit by while people insist on believing in a flawed ideal or just a basic inability to keep my mouth shut when I know no one will listen?

[shades]

*shaking head* Ya know... as I was writing that I was thinking to myself *self, we have been over this before and no one listened to reason that time why bother going through it again* Yet I did it anyway. Now would you say that is just a refusal to sit by while people insist on believing in a flawed ideal or just a basic inability to keep my mouth shut when I know no one will listen?

Amen Brother! Amen.
Now that deserves a dancing bananna.

[Aslan]

???

I don't understand the elitist comments.

*shaking head* Ya know... as I was writing that I was thinking to myself *self, we have been over this before and no one listened to reason that time why bother going through it again*

You've been over this again and again but have only posted 4 times? Were all 4 times about this?

and me? Sarcastic? Who Me? Never. Oh No Not me. Hee hee.
This is the fourth or fifth time I have seen this post in the past six years. Please use search.

Six years and less than 200 posts? What % were sacrastically mocking someone asking a good question?

All I'm saying is give the guy and the rest of us a break...he was asking a question about a not only common "myth", but one that many people continue to believe and many companies continue to try and sell. Not every post is going to be to your high intellectual standards which is why it's not mandatory that you respond.

Now, back to the topic, I've never really bought "rifling"...I'm not an expert on balistics or anything, but it just didn't seem like you could take advantage of spin while shooting a smooth round ball. Even if you could get it to spin one way or the other...the factors affecting a paintball coming out of a barrel and while in flight just don't seem to be something that could be overcome by making a ball spin a certain direction. I don't think it hurts though...so if ya like the barrel...buy it...try it out. Who knows, maybe with certain paint or incertain weather conditions you'll like how it performs.

[shades]

I don't understand the elitist comments.



You've been over this again and again but have only posted 4 times? Were all 4 times about this?



Six years and less than 200 posts? What % were sacrastically mocking someone asking a good question?

All I'm saying is give the guy and the rest of us a break...he was asking a question about a not only common "myth", but one that many people continue to believe and many companies continue to try and sell. Not every post is going to be to your high intellectual standards which is why it's not mandatory that you respond.

Now, back to the topic, I've never really bought "rifling"...I'm not an expert on balistics or anything, but it just didn't seem like you could take advantage of spin while shooting a smooth round ball. Even if you could get it to spin one way or the other...the factors affecting a paintball coming out of a barrel and while in flight just don't seem to be something that could be overcome by making a ball spin a certain direction. I don't think it hurts though...so if ya like the barrel...buy it...try it out. Who knows, maybe with certain paint or incertain weather conditions you'll like how it performs.

It s not the question Im mocking. It is the fiction the PB industry pushs as fact to sell a barrel that fundamentally does NOT work as intended. they try this every four years or so.
As for my posts I have had couple handles. Plus I don't try to post anything unless it is helpful or unanswered. Barring this Thread I guess. If you notice i did answer the question not as verbously as Doom with a Mag, but answered. and I never intended to flame Ghost Flanker.

[BigEvil]

Now, back to the topic, I've never really bought "rifling"...I'm not an expert on balistics or anything, but it just didn't seem like you could take advantage of spin while shooting a smooth round ball. Even if you could get it to spin one way or the other...the factors affecting a paintball coming out of a barrel and while in flight just don't seem to be something that could be overcome by making a ball spin a certain direction. I don't think it hurts though...so if ya like the barrel...buy it...try it out. Who knows, maybe with certain paint or incertain weather conditions you'll like how it performs.

I owned 3 old-school Armson barrels of different lengths, and one J&J hard Chromed Rifled barrel. Here is my observation (If anyone cares);

Back in the day, paint was not only a little bigger than it is now, but sizes varied widely between brands. Not only that, no one knew squat yet about the whole 'Paint to barrel match" thing. Barrels were also larger bored, especailly since there were so many twist lock automags around in those days.

Then PTP introduced the Armson, basically, you took a big bore paint, and shot it through a barrel with "riffling" , that just so happened to fit the paint much better than most others. No one could exsplain it, other than "wow there must be something to this riffling stuff". When in reality there was an inadvertant good paint-to-barrel match. Armson barrels were constantly beating the competition in every accuracy test anyone could come up with. PCRI declared Armson the most accurate barrel at one point too if I remember.

Once the paintballs started getting smaller, (and rolling out of the Armsons) they werent any better than any other barrel.

It was about this time that Bob long started marking his barrels with the bore sizes on them, and then the light went on in everyones head. I put my Armsons forever away in my gear bag at that point when Carl Walin of the Flagstation (Of Mongoose cocker fame) came out with a very nice tight bore barrel for mags and cockers called the "Stalker". I still have those to this day, (although I dont use them). Bob long was selling his Long-Shot kits, Smart Parts started selling AA barrels in different bore sizes, and shortly after, introduced the Freak.

So there's my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.

[famousgamer]

If a side to side spinning paintball was more accurate, EVERY barrel would have spinning rifling. Every real life gun barrel does for that same reason. Common sense.

You dont want your paintballs to spin, unless they are backspinning for added distance, and even that throwns em off a little. MOST paintball barrels that claim to have rifling use a "straight rifling" style, which actually promotes the paintball to NOT spin.

A paintball isnt heavy enough, or long enough to enjoy gyroscpoic stabilization. Besides, a paintball is never perfectly round either. Tom Kaye knows it. The experts know it... its just a matter of time before anyone who asks this question knows it.

[DoomWithAnXmag]

yet again

I don't understand the elitist comments.



You've been over this again and again but have only posted 4 times? Were all 4 times about this?



Six years and less than 200 posts? What % were sacrastically mocking someone asking a good question?

All I'm saying is give the guy and the rest of us a break...he was asking a question about a not only common "myth", but one that many people continue to believe and many companies continue to try and sell. Not every post is going to be to your high intellectual standards which is why it's not mandatory that you respond.

Now, back to the topic, I've never really bought "rifling"...I'm not an expert on balistics or anything, but it just didn't seem like you could take advantage of spin while shooting a smooth round ball. Even if you could get it to spin one way or the other...the factors affecting a paintball coming out of a barrel and while in flight just don't seem to be something that could be overcome by making a ball spin a certain direction. I don't think it hurts though...so if ya like the barrel...buy it...try it out. Who knows, maybe with certain paint or incertain weather conditions you'll like how it performs.

I was not being elitist or anything of the sort. Just expressing exasperation at going over this again. I don't see why people insist on arguing about this over and over even after it is clearly explained why it WONT WORK. Let it GO already. Facts are facts no matter how many times you ask the question. I am sorry if anyone was offended by the way I stated things, it just gets frustrating.
I was thinking about the whole thing and thought about what it would take to make a paintball work more like a bullet. Without major reworking of the paintball and feed system I see no way to do it. You could I'm sure produce bullet shaped paintballs but then an entire new gun and feed system would be required. Also once it is bullet shaped you would HAVE to spin it or it would spall or tumble. This would require making the paint inside more evenly dense and stable. Also the shell would have to be changed to work with the groves in the barrel. That in its self would be an real feat. I think all in all the best way to increase a paintballs accuracy would be to change the paint to some sort of stable gelatin that would not be a liquid and would have a consistent density. The second change would be to make the shell perfect. I am positive both these things could be done but would most likely make the balls cost too much more. Besides if you changed the paint I am not sure you could give it the consistency we want while keeping it completely non toxic and bio degradable. Possibly as the sport becomes more demanding companies will engineer paint to keep up. Something else occurred to me now. If this was done and the paint would match the entire inside circumference of the barrel perfectly you could put a series of very light straight lans running parallel with the bore of the barrel inside. Instead of spinning the ball these would help it track straight through the bore and increase the accuracy. Implementing all these changes I am guessing would net something like a 15-25 % increase in accuracy. Just an educated guess of course. Lastly I don't know if anyone else has seen this but the military and police use an actual fire arm round that is basically a bullet shell with a hollow plastic bullet filled with paint. Yes it hurts but it also acts like a bullet not a whiffle ball.

[ghost flanker]

I feel like Wayne's World when he tries to play Stairway to Heaven in the guitar store

It looks like I'm pissin people off here. Ok, I guess some of you are a little sick of this question, but understand that I'm new to this site and I just had a simple question, so friggin chill out.

I wasn't even asking whether or not rifled barrels are more "accurate" than smooth bore... they probably aren't. I was simply trying to better understand the dynamics of a liquid filled ball and what it's capable and not capable of doing when fired from a particular barrel.

Again, my question does NOT regard accuracy.

[ghost flanker]

Let's Test It !!!

Heres an easy way to judge the spin impated be a barrel. Break some paint in the barrel. Shoot a ball through it. Remove the barrel and examine the streaks. They are staight, they don't follow the rifling. thats because the paintball doesn't follow the rifling either.

Metal bullets benefit from rifling because it actually cuts into the lead. If you damage a paintball shell in the same fashion it will likely break.

BTW Coyote, very helpful info on the differences between bullet rifling and paintball rifling.

Also, excellent idea on how to test the presence of spin. However, wet paint inside the barrel (even a very thin layer) might possibly affect the amount of spin compared to a dry barrel... but who knows. Perhaps using a light coat of talcum powder instead of wet paint would eliminate this potentially confounding variable.

Let's test it! I don't personally have a rifled barrel, but anyone out there who does have one and wouldn't mind actually testing this out (talcum powder and a very THIN layer of paint in separate tests) and reporting the results, I would be quite greatful and will bestow hailing smilies before you.

Instead of going back and forth, regurgitating what we have merely read about this supposed myth, let's put it to the test and see for ourselves; Is there ANY rifled paintball barrel of ANY length in existance that can effectively spin a liquid filled paintball of ANY size/fill without destroying it?

[ghost flanker]

Let's test it! I don't personally have a rifled barrel, but anyone out there who does have one and wouldn't mind actually testing this out (talcum powder and a very THIN layer of paint in separate tests) and reporting the results, I would be quite greatful and will bestow hailing smilies before you.

Does anybody out there wanna do this?