A general question about a technical topic...

[Aslan]

Okay, here's the deal...

I own a Classic Mag...loved it so much I decided to piece together a Minimag and upgrade it as much as possible. After about a year, I pieced mine together. I wanted an X-Valve with ULE trigger, but couldn't afford one so I got a Retro Valve and had it milled (professionally) to accept the ULT upgrade.

When putting in the request to a tech about milling, I mentioned that I was also trying to get an autococker up and running and was really having difficulties. He said that he knew alot about autocockers and could probably fix mine if I wanted. So I sent the cocker (because I was at the end of my rope) and the Retro Valve.

The valve was milled and the cocker repaired. Both were sent back. It was very inexpensive and I was happy with the service.

However...the cocker did not work and when I added the ULT to the Retro Valve and aired it up...it didn't work. Below is a link to the thread about how it wasn't working:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=200183&highlight=Retro+Valve

Anyways, the tech and I decided it was probably that the pin needed to be shaved. I mentioned that the autococker also wasn't working. I tried some quick fixes, but nothing. He (the tech) said just to send both back to him and he'd take care of it.

I got both back. The Retro Valve appeared to work. I hooked up my 3000psi tank to it and fired about 20 rounds in my back yard...seemed to work fine, no leaks. The cocker, well, still wouldn't work. I decided the best thing would be to just tinker with the autococker myself since the tech seemingly couldn't fix it. He did give me some ideas what it might be and I was going to explore them.

Today, I anxiously unveiled my Minimag with Warpfeed and ULT/Retro Valve. I was VERY excited! Well, the warp was acting a little funky...an occasional ball not feeding...but there was a BIGGER problem. I got out on the field and it wouldn't fire. It seemed to fire okay in the backyard...seemed to fire okay in the chrono area...but all of the sudden it was chuffing as if I was short stroking and then there was nothing, no reactivity in the trigger, as if there was no air (yes, there was air...100% sure...full tank). I jiggled the trigger and the gun...got the trigger to stiffen...but it would fire once and then BAM...same thing, dead trigger.

I couldn't figure it out. It was if it wasn't getting air...but it was. I thought that the only thing I had changed from the backyard to the field was the air tank. I was using my 4500psi X-stream and I though that maybe because this adjustable reg wouldn't go higher than 825psi, maybe it just wasn't enough air pressure. So I switched to the 3000psi tank I used in the backyard. Nothing. Aired it up and nothing happened...and now it was leaking air (not gushing, not faint, but noticeable) out the barrel.

So here's the dilemma...
Should I send these guns back to this tech AGAIN? I mean, this guy is great and he seems to know his stuff and he's well-known for milling Retro Valves...but at what point to I just stop this? I mean two guns...neither working...neither fixed...and I've probably spent around $100 in repairs and shipping. And that's reasonable...his prices were very good...but I'm essentially at "just north" of square 1. Not at square 1...the guns are better than when I originally sent them in...but still two guns not operational.

I guess a better question is, what choice do I have? AGD techs won't touch it with the valve milled. I doubt the techs at the nearest pb store know any more than the tech I sent it to in regards to cockers.

A little depressed about everything right now...not so much about the cocker, it's just a gun I wanted to tinker with and I got it cheap. But the Retro Valve cost me alot of money...I probably have $600-$700 dollars into that gun in parts, accessories, and upgrades.

[Aslan]

dang

I thought for sure I'd get some advice by now...must have made my post too long and it put the audience to sleep...I should have made it a poll. Maybe I'll make it a poll and put it in paintball talk. But it's definitely a "tech" issue because it's about my Retro Valve just not working...hmmm...what to do...

[Shirow]

Have you tried messing with the carrier/shims on the level 10 or the shims on the ULT?

The ULT can be kind of a pain to get working right.

[Pneumagger]

sounds to me liek it could be your trigger rod length, Lube the crap outta the ULT.

Worst case scenario is to just carry your Retro on off with you as well.

[Aslan]

Have you tried messing with the carrier/shims on the level 10 or the shims on the ULT?

The ULT can be kind of a pain to get working right.

Well, when I couldn't get it working originally...I tried adding a ton of shims. Eventually I came to found out the the on/off pin was too long and needed to be shaved. That's why I sent it in to the Tech (2nd time) to have the on/off pin shaved. He had it shaved and adjusted the shims before sending it back to me.

As for the Level 10, that was tuned and working fine before the ULT was added and was supposed to have been broken in.

[Aslan]

sounds to me liek it could be your trigger rod length, Lube the crap outta the ULT.

I'll look at it tonight and see if I can see anything. Does it sound like the trigger rod length is too short? What's a good way to know what length the trigger rod should be? I'll definitely lube up the ULT and see what I got.

Worst case scenario is to just carry your Retro on off with you as well.

Well, problem there is the Retro Valve has been milled to accept the ULT...so if I can't get it to work with the ULT on/off I might as well toss it in the trash and start saving my money for an X-Valve.

[wjr]

The trigger rod is supposed to be 1/16 of an inch away from the trigger when the gun is gassed up.

It sounds like the best way to solve the problem would be to go back to the tech. I mean, you paid him to get both of your guns to work, and they don't, so he hasn't done his job yet.

[Tunaman]

I'll look at it tonight and see if I can see anything. Does it sound like the trigger rod length is too short? What's a good way to know what length the trigger rod should be? I'll definitely lube up the ULT and see what I got.



Well, problem there is the Retro Valve has been milled to accept the ULT...so if I can't get it to work with the ULT on/off I might as well toss it in the trash and start saving my money for an X-Valve.

Send the mag to me and I'll fix it. There is no reason that the milling of the valve should have anthing to do with it not working. This is a standard mod. Shaving the pin is bad advice. Dont let just anyone mess with your mag.

[Pneumagger]

A standrd RT on off should work in the valve... I mean, Xvalves use them all the time and can use ULTs as well.

[Aslan]

[egb groupie]

Concerning using the standard on/off...I think the X-Valve and E-mag on/offs are the same general size as the ULT on/off (thus they don't need to be milled to accept the ULT and that is why you can just swap on/offs on thos particular valves. It is my understanding that on the milled retro valve, since the stock on/off is now too short...I might be able to use it if I add an o-ring to the bottom of the on/off...but right now that's my last resort because last time I tried that it didn't work.

You need to add that larger oring to the bottom of the on/off hole, just like a classic or x-valve has. It fills the gap up, and it goes around the small o-ring.

[Aslan]

Well, called and ordered the reg piston assembly and a repair kit...the guy at AGD recommended the RT repair kit. So, looks like I'll be playig with my Retro valve soon...give it a good once over. And then...perhaps my new marker will be complete!!

[athomas]

If when you turn down the velocity, it still leaks out the back, then the problem is most likely a bad regulator piston oring, not the regulator piston assembly.

All diameters of on-off assemblies are the same. The hole depths are also the same. The newer retro/Xvalves do not have the small oring recess at the bottom, but are the same as the original AIR valves. The larer top oring takes the job of holding the small on-off oring in place. If you use the ULT, then you don't need any orings except the ULT supplied ones.

Make sure your level 10 is tuned properly or you will experience bolt stick which could make your trigger go limp after a shot.

[Aslan]

Well, the Level 10 will definitely be next if this doesn't fix it. I'm thinking, even though it's so simple that it really annoys me, that the problem was as simple as a slightly chewed up o-ring and a need for additional lubrication.

But, the good news is if that's all it is...my marker will finally be ready and I'll be HAPPY!!!

...except for that #^$& autococker!!!