Intermittent Misfire

[peeeto]

i don't know if that's the right way to describe it, but here's what's happening:

every couple of shots, the marker just "spits" out a ball - very softly. what could be the matter?


-the marker is a brand new tac-one.

-i think i've tuned the LvlX right, except for trying out more shims. there are 3 shims in it now. i'm using the red spring (that's the medium one, right?).

-i've installed the ULE on/off and shimmed the heck out of it (6 shims) to get alot of reactivity (it doens't run away on full auto, but the trigger is VERY sensitive - each time i pull the trigger, i can get up to 4 rapid fire shots even if trying to fire only one ball. unexpected, but i think i like it!)

-the problem described above occurred with a full tank of air.

-my air tank is a Pure Energy 72/3000, and i've shimmed the regulator spring pack so that it outputs ~900 psi.

thanks in advance!

[SR_matt]

well 2 things
how fast are you shooting?

second is it hp or lp out put?

a lot of the PE tanks have bad recharge. true story- sniper 2 pump gun, running at 230ish out of my female stab. 45/45 pe tank at about 1000 psi couldnt recharge fast enough to keep the valve shut which only requires around 200ish on that gun. where as a co2 tank i can shoot down to an empty tank and only have about a 1-2 second vent from the tank)

the pe tanks also have a bad habbit of blowing orings (saw a few of them come in every month at the field i worked at )

-matt

[Tao]

well 2 things
how fast are you shooting?

second is it hp or lp out put?

a lot of the PE tanks have bad recharge. true story- sniper 2 pump gun, running at 230ish out of my female stab. 45/45 pe tank at about 1000 psi couldnt recharge fast enough to keep the valve shut which only requires around 200ish on that gun. where as a co2 tank i can shoot down to an empty tank and only have about a 1-2 second vent from the tank)

the pe tanks also have a bad habbit of blowing orings (saw a few of them come in every month at the field i worked at )

-matt

It doesn't surprise me. I bought a PE tank since I was told that they have the best flow through rate. However when I put a flatline on it, the hole where the gas comes into the PE reg was the size of a pin hole (and the flatline was at lest 1/8in).

[StygShore]

oil heavily!

6 drops of oil in your asa, and see if that fixes the problem.

If you are fully pulling th etrigger and getting the little chuff and a ball rolling out then it is a problem, if it is bouncing becasue of all your shims in the ULT... not a problem, quit trying to bounce the trigger and that wont hapen anymore


Styg

[peeeto]

well 2 things
how fast are you shooting?

second is it hp or lp out put?

a lot of the PE tanks have bad recharge. true story- sniper 2 pump gun, running at 230ish out of my female stab. 45/45 pe tank at about 1000 psi couldnt recharge fast enough to keep the valve shut which only requires around 200ish on that gun. where as a co2 tank i can shoot down to an empty tank and only have about a 1-2 second vent from the tank)

the pe tanks also have a bad habbit of blowing orings (saw a few of them come in every month at the field i worked at )

-matt

not quite sure how fast i'm shooting... guessing 10-15+ bps..?

hp output. reg set to ~900psi

but i don't think it's recharge, because it'll happen when i try to shoot after not having shot for a while. when the trigger bounces & quick-fires, everything's ok.

It doesn't surprise me. I bought a PE tank since I was told that they have the best flow through rate. However when I put a flatline on it, the hole where the gas comes into the PE reg was the size of a pin hole (and the flatline was at lest 1/8in).

i've seen the size of the hole... but again, not quite sure that's it (see my reply to matt, above).

6 drops of oil in your asa, and see if that fixes the problem.

If you are fully pulling th etrigger and getting the little chuff and a ball rolling out then it is a problem, if it is bouncing becasue of all your shims in the ULT... not a problem, quit trying to bounce the trigger and that wont hapen anymore


Styg

yes, that's exactly what's happening - full trigger pull, then a little chuff and ball rolls out (these were old balls that i suspect shrunk, so they rolled out pretty fast).

when you say "that's a problem", what could be the problem? please???

i will oil it as soon as i can test it next...

i'm not trying to fix the bounce - i like the bounce (but will tone it down if that's the problem with the little chuff...).

[SR_matt]

i think he was refering to the hole inside on the input side of the valve
-matt

[Tao]

i think he was refering to the hole inside on the input side of the valve
-matt

I was refering to the hole at the bottom of the threads that screw the regulator into the tank which is only visible if you get the reg taken off of the tank.

[Tao]

not quite sure how fast i'm shooting... guessing 10-15+ bps..?

hp output. reg set to ~900psi

but i don't think it's recharge, because it'll happen when i try to shoot after not having shot for a while. when the trigger bounces & quick-fires, everything's ok.




i've seen the size of the hole... but again, not quite sure that's it (see my reply to matt, above).




yes, that's exactly what's happening - full trigger pull, then a little chuff and ball rolls out (these were old balls that i suspect shrunk, so they rolled out pretty fast).

when you say "that's a problem", what could be the problem? please???

i will oil it as soon as i can test it next...

i'm not trying to fix the bounce - i like the bounce (but will tone it down if that's the problem with the little chuff...).

Check the field strip screw. Make sure it is snugged tight with a key, but not cranked as tight as it can go. I have found that hand tightening isn't enough and the vavle will move up and down slightly making it not come into contact with the sear and doing similar things (shooting fine for a bit, then short stroking or not firing period...then firing for a bit again)

[peeeto]

i think he was refering to the hole inside on the input side of the valve
-matt

I was refering to the hole at the bottom of the threads that screw the regulator into the tank which is only visible if you get the reg taken off of the tank.

yup - i know which one he's talking about - i just saw it from the other side: under the reg seat/belleville spring assembly inside of the regulator (i've never taken the regulator off the tank, just taken it apart to try different shims under the springs to increase the output pressure).


thanks again, Tao, i'll check the field strip screw (from what i remembered, it was hand-tightened, then ~1/4 turn with hex, but i'll redo it & try again).

i haven't had a chance to try anything yet - maybe later tonight. will update.

[Maj. Paynt]

Ok this is weird i am having the exact same problem with my tac 1,

if i shoot the thing quickly or even one shot every second then the gun works flawlessly, but if i say stop shooting for about 30 seconds my first shot cycles the bolt and the ball rolls out the barrel.

I have also noticed that if i hold down the trigger after a shot, wait a few min then quickly release and fire, i don't have the problem.

this has to be an issue with the xvalve/lvlx somewhere but i don't know enough about mags to just start randomly tinkering.


as for the bounce issue that peeeto was mentioning well its not the ULT cause i don't have one installed.

[SR_matt]

I was refering to the hole at the bottom of the threads that screw the regulator into the tank which is only visible if you get the reg taken off of the tank.

ya thats what i was trying to say but ya didnt come out very clear.


-matt

[peeeto]

Check the field strip screw. Make sure it is snugged tight with a key, but not cranked as tight as it can go. I have found that hand tightening isn't enough and the vavle will move up and down slightly making it not come into contact with the sear and doing similar things (shooting fine for a bit, then short stroking or not firing period...then firing for a bit again)

well, i had a few minutes to try some things out, and tightening the field strip screw and gripframe screw seemed to do the trick... maybe more oil helped, too.

testing by dry-firing went well after doing the above... i think. my air supply was down to around 1800psi by the time i tightened the screws, so unless more air pressure affects the problem (which i don't think it would), problem solved

i'll get more air tomorrow or fri. and test some more.

thanks again!