Questions About Effiecency

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Cegasaturn
    Pew Pew! Laser Beams!
    • May 2006
    • 135

    #1

    Questions About Effiecency

    Hello,
    I haven't really posted on this site before. However, I have a somewhat technical question, which I did not think belonged on PBNation. So, I figured I'd come to a more enlightened forum to ask

    So, as my mind wandered today in class, I decided it would be quite fun to design a paintball marker. I thought of some ideas, then I realized it would be a good idea to check out other markers and see if anything inspires me. So I went onto ZDSPB and looked at the firing animations, and the two designs I was most drawn to were the Automag and the Aedes. I first looked at the Aedes, and my thinking was along the lines of "Wow that's so simple! It must be extremely effiecent!". I remembered seeing it when the thread about it was posted on PBNation, and being wowed by it's incredible cycle time. So, I figured that, if the Aedes only uses air to push the bolt forwards against a spring and to propel the paintball, it must be incredibly efficient! So, I went back to the thread on PBNation (here), and it said "About 1500shots from a 68/4500 in the prototype". That confused me. Why would this marker be less efficient than a Viking or a Cyborg? Both of those markers use air to move both a bolt and ram, who's mass certainly is greater than that of the Aedes bolt. These open the valve, which releases air that propels the paintball out of the marker. Now, the whole ram/bolt cycle, I would have guessed, would use more air than simply pushing against a spring (I have no idea how strong the spring is, though). So, since I didn't know how I'd figure out the Aedes question, I went on to the Automag. I understand that the Aedes works similarly to an Automag, in the way that air moves the bolt similarly. Again, the cycle seems extremely efficient. But I have always heard that Automags are gas hogs. So, my question is, why? Is it because the pressure being used is large enough to offset the shorter time it is being used per cycle?

    Any shedding of light is appreciated. I am not going to claim any expertise when it comes to air pressure and all the other factors involved here. I may have overlooked some incredibly simple answer, or I may have looked at things in the utter incorrect way. However, if anyone has some idea on efficiency in Automags (and, dare I hope, the Aedes), I would appreciate their input!

    Thanks!
  • MournBlade
    Registered User
    • Jan 2008
    • 86

    #2
    Well gas efficiency is determined, in its simplest terms, around a tube. Deciding what is going to be accuracy vs efficiency. How long of a tube am I going to use? What tube takes the least amount of gas to propel my paint ball at the speed I want? Will that tube be accurate enough?
    Once you've decided on a tube, you have to decide how you are going to measure your gas. What pressure do you want to run at? KEY exactly what volume of gas at that specific pressure is needed to propel the ball down your tube without waste. Next is how do you regulate that pressure? The difference of one psi can throw your efficiency out the window.
    Then there are always the tolerances between parts that contribute to efficiency. Overall design of the system is a factor as well.
    Why are pump guns the most efficient? They only use gas to propel the paint ball, no hammers, bolts, rams, or valves to get in the way.

    Comment

    • ElPanda
      Polarstar E. and M.

      • Jan 2008
      • 495

      #3
      in a blowforward the lack of efficiency comes from the fact that the air that is being used to propell the paintball is also being weakened as it pushes the bolt forward. in a poppet the high pressure air behind the valve is undisturbed until mid cycle when the bolt is already forward, giving it full expansive power against the back face of the paintball since it didnt have to push anything out of the way first.

      as mournblade said pumps are the most efficient because they dont rely on any air to cycle the internals of the marker (pump duh)

      also I dont know if you have stumble accross the tinkerers guild yet but its where all the tinkering minds in paintball hang out, or used to at least, here is a link to the thread colin started about the aedes, in it you will see him and lurker discussing efficiency, artificial volumization of air in the fire chamber etc etc

      they had prototypes apparently that were getting upwards of 2300 a fil

      Last edited by ElPanda; 06-02-2008, 08:54 AM.
      CNC Programmer/Machinist
      Polarstar Engineering and Machine

      Comment

      • Cegasaturn
        Pew Pew! Laser Beams!
        • May 2006
        • 135

        #4
        Originally posted by ElPanda
        in a blowforward the lack of efficiency comes from the fact that the air that is being used to propell the paintball is also being weakened as it pushes the bolt forward. in a poppet the high pressure air behind the valve is undisturbed until mid cycle when the bolt is already forward, giving it full expansive power against the back face of the paintball since it didnt have to push anything out of the way first.

        as mournblade said pumps are the most efficient because they dont rely on any air to cycle the internals of the marker (pump duh)

        also I dont know if you have stumble accross the tinkerers guild yet but its where all the tinkering minds in paintball hang out, or used to at least, here is a link to the thread colin started about the aedes, in it you will see him and lurker discussing efficiency, artificial volumization of air in the fire chamber etc etc

        they had prototypes apparently that were getting upwards of 2300 a fil

        http://tinkersguild.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=392
        I will certainly go check that out. Thanks for the responses!

        Comment

        Working...