My little project

[Hilltop Customs]

Whats up everyone

So I've been dreaming up this project for a long time now, slowly but surely Ive been drawing up plans. Only have a few more parts to draft, then its time to start the machine code which will be interesting to say the least(only have done a few very simple parts be4).

I thought I'd post it up to get some opinions and maybe some ideas on cosmetic milling that could be done.

Anyway here it is:



a few parts still need to be drawn up(trigger pin, 3 way seal pin and vert asa) and I still need add stops to the trigger, draw up a drop in electronic conversion setup , put cocker barrel threads on it, and some other threading.

Sorry if I seem to babel on about stuff, but I'm going to use this reference to remind myself of stuff I have to do.

[Hilltop Customs]

Heres some screen shots from when I was trying to decide on the frame:


I still havent decided if I'm 100% on the integrated feedneck, but I figured if I dont like it I can just chop it off and thread in for an aftermarket feedneck.


Thats all for now, need to finish up some schoolwork so I can have some time to work on this more.

feel free to let me know your opinions....

right now I'm debating with myself what kind of vert asa I want to make, 15* forward or vertical

[luke]

I see several spots on that that can not be machined. Plus, simple changes will lesson the amount of sets ups necessary to machine it.

Also, is the feed cup going to be machined with the body? If so that will add a considerable amount of cost to your materials.

But then again if you are a machinist you probably know all this.

[Hilltop Customs]

I see several spots on that that can not be machined. Plus, simple changes will lesson the amount of sets ups necessary to machine it.

the feed cup/neck, specifically the area between the ridges and the lower portions of the cup? or am I missing something. The trigger frame where the guard meets the frame I completely forgot to radius that acute angle.

Honestly I havent thought about set ups much...

Also, is the feed cup going to be machined with the body? If so that will add a considerable amount of cost to your materials.

But then again if you are a machinist you probably know all this.

I havent thought about the cost of materials much yet, but I did think to limit waste I would make 2 bodys with one inverted and rotated 180* so the feednecks are side by side with each other. Either way I'm not sure if I like the idea idea of the integrated feedneck yet. Another added benifit of machining 2 bodies at a time would be reduction of setups along with the reduced waste of materials.



Doh, after making an assembly to see how large of a piece of aluminum would be required to machine 2 bodies I realized that for a significant tool path to pass between the feednecks the bodies will have to be offset by about 1/2"....more wasted material. I like the idea of the solid body/feedneck, but the more I look at it the more waste I see in both machine time and materials.



edit: I completely forgot to say thanks for the quick reply luke

[Hilltop Customs]

some reason I really like the highlighted item color of solidworks

[TwilightG]

One thing to note about your design is that the rail does not have a Z-lock for the valve.
Although I've seen a few Mags here and there where someone either chopped off the end of their rail or just didn't bother to place the pin in the valve, it could be a possible safety issue.

[Hilltop Customs]

One thing to note about your design is that the rail does not have a Z-lock for the valve.
Although I've seen a few Mags here and there where someone either chopped off the end of their rail or just didn't bother to place the pin in the valve, it could be a possible safety issue.

I should have been more specific, its not based on a mag platform.....although it wouldnt look bad with a mag valve sticking out the back. Those 2 holes in the side are internal air pathways, I guess they could easily be mistaken for a mag sear pin.

I do have similar concerns to what your saying though, if the "bolt guide" is unscrewed from the back of the body while pressurized it will become a projectile....along with the bolt. I've been thinking about this and am going to make a step where the "bolt guide" comes unsealed if its unscrewed while under pressure, in other words the marker will begin to vent before shooting the guide into the face of who ever is disassembling......only thing is, this requires additional threading and a slight increase to the overall length, which the whole point of this was to be minimalistic.

thanks for the tip though, I really do appreciate it

[MANN]

One thing to note about your design is that the rail does not have a Z-lock for the valve.
Although I've seen a few Mags here and there where someone either chopped off the end of their rail or just didn't bother to place the pin in the valve, it could be a possible safety issue.

Just FYI Xmags Do not have zlock grooves. There are a few rails that dont either.

[Heiliger Bimbam]

Yay, nice job.

You could reduce weight by replacing two-hole-45-grip-layout with a three-hole-layout like EGOs or Angels. And youll get more space to stuff things like Battery, board and solenoid.

Body and feed milled from one metal piece could be quite expensive. A hole + thread should do the trick and the feed can be replaced if damaged.

[y0da900]

I should have been more specific, its not based on a mag platform.....

What kind of platform is it based on? Bolt guide implies spool of some sort, is it one off or for an existing valve train?

[Hilltop Customs]

Yay, nice job.

You could reduce weight by replacing two-hole-45-grip-layout with a three-hole-layout like EGOs or Angels. And youll get more space to stuff things like Battery, board and solenoid.

Body and feed milled from one metal piece could be quite expensive. A hole + thread should do the trick and the feed can be replaced if damaged.

Thanks for the reply Heiliger, your U mag thread is what got me to throw this up here

I was thinking about making 1 off aluminum panels for the grips, but for right now I'm going to stick with 45 so there is one less thing that has to be made. Right now I'm thinking there is enough room for a clapper noid, universal t-board and a 9 volt, but thats a guesstimate, I'd need to figure out what kind of noid I'd need and to do that I'd need to know the exact pull weight.

I also figured out the amt of material required to machine some bodies in different orientation:
2 bodies with integrated necks could be cut out of a block which would be 5.5"x4.2", or with screw in necks it would be around 5.5x3.5", or 2 bodies machined inline with screw in necks would be 10x1.75" which would be optimal from a material volume perspective.

I was bored and threw on a radius to the frame and asa to see how it would look, also fixed the asa/trigger guard to allow single vertical interface, unlike the previous pic where it has multiple angles.



y0da900, its one off and I guess it could be called spool style....3 moving parts in the whole gun(other than reg) trigger, 3 way actuation pin and the bolt. It has a sealed volume dump chamber, so I'm hoping dwell control wont be required...but if it has horrible consistency, it would easily be fixed by installing some electronics to control the timing.

[Hilltop Customs]

just checked my pricing and its more expensive for me to machine 2 bodies of out 1.5x2"x10" stock than it is for a piece of 5x5"x1.2" I should be able to squeeze both bodies out of....I'm going to have to look into this a little more. Actually the piece of 5x5 is less than 2/3 the price of bar?!?!

the cheapest route is to make a feedneck out of round bar and 2 threaded bodies out of 4x5"....but that only drops the cost of materials by about 75cents per body. Although machining necks out of round bar could be done basically setup free...automated feed lathe FTW

still considering the options....the added strength of integrating the feedneck(most feednecks break at the threads right?) could possibly outweigh the more difficult tool paths and added machine time.

Anyone know a good place to buy derilin? I'd like to make a couple parts while I'm at it to see if they have any benefits. One of them was testing a trigger a bushing with it, along with some other things.

[y0da900]

Mcmaster-Carr usually has decent prices on Delrin and other forms of acetal.


Any chance you'd share some of the internals?

[Hilltop Customs]

Sorry Id prefer not to for now...If everything works out ok, I'm planning on selling a batch or two to make a few bucks for another project I have in mind

Thanks for that source, bookmarked for future reference....took a quick glance through and looks like making a few Delrin toys wouldnt be bad at all. and now I know how to spell it too lol thanks again

I must have dyslexia or something, every time I see that word I pronounce it derlin in my head

[y0da900]

Sorry Id prefer not to for now...If everything works out ok, I'm planning on selling a batch or two to make a few bucks for another project I have in mind

Thanks for that source, bookmarked for future reference....took a quick glance through and looks like making a few Delrin toys wouldnt be bad at all. and now I know how to spell it too lol thanks again

I must have dyslexia or something, every time I see that word I pronounce it derlin in my head

No problem, I've got a few that I won't share too.

The Delrin issue doesn't help with WGP and a few other companies spelling it incorrectly on their websites and all of their advertisements.

If you are planning on using Delrin for the bolt, be aware that it can have some pretty serious issues with scratching in a spool valve gun causing it to not work after a while. Take an Ion for example, if the bolt is scratched too much, the seal behind the breech will no longer function causing the bolt to stick forward and vent or a slow leak at best. Very few spool valves are Delrin bolted because of this. Even Smart Parts stopped using it in the Shockers for bolts, and if they stop using a less expensive material because it sucks that much more for the job, it must have a real downfall.