This!

[cyberave68]

Thats a pretty cool idea to make it out of acrylic. I also like the way you took the time to sand out and polish all your cut areas not leaving any milling or drilling marks.

I think i see one small error on your part tho that might help you out in the speed of your trigger pull. In this pic you have the exuast/vent hole that is between the valve and the piston set behind where the trigg rod is. On the MSV valve the exuast/vent hole is actully closer to the valve pin and when open it hisses a little. The location of your hole isnt allowing the air to escape fast enuff for the sear arm to rest. (i'm pretty sure anyways by the look of it.) Look at the second pic as i have disected a MSV an hope that you can see the difference....

Your pic....
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~iod-zap/paintball/valve1.jpg"><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~iod-zap/paintball/valve1.jpg" width="600" height="450"></img></a>

My pic...


The hole seems to split the trig rod and valve pin so that when released the air cant stay trapped there, thus allowing the sppring in the MPA to rest. Or in your case the sear arm being allowed to push back on the ram faster/sooner..... I hope i explained myself well and great job on the see thu combo MSV/MPA pneumag assembly....

Then there is always the fact that even tho you made your trig out of acrylic as well, the little spring in the valve isnt really strong enuff to return the trig very well. Alot of people chuff alot more than you did in your vid due to that. You could prolly turn your valve screw in a bit more to get a little more responce out of it???


Cy

[ZapTheMad]

I think i see one small error on your part tho that might help you out in the speed of your trigger pull. In this pic you have the exuast/vent hole that is between the valve and the piston set behind where the trigg rod is. On the MSV valve the exuast/vent hole is actully closer to the valve pin and when open it hisses a little. The location of your hole isnt allowing the air to escape fast enuff for the sear arm to rest. (i'm pretty sure anyways by the look of it.) Look at the second pic as i have disected a MSV an hope that you can see the difference....

Timing the exhaust holes is the trickiest part. If you look closely you can see that I used a little bit larger trigger pin than the MSV (.126" drill rod to be exact). When the trigger is pulled back, it seals against the bottom of the bore, minimizing blow by. The rear trigger stop is the trigger pin bottoming out and sealing. It doesn't "hiss" when holding the trigger down. It only hisses when partially pulled. Even then, it doesn't hiss as much as MSV's. The valve end of the trigger pin is slightly cone shaped. Might explain why you think that.

After I drill the exhaust holes I carefully tune the valve and trigger pins. One of the things that I don't like about the MSV is how sloppy the timing is (dealing in thousandths of an inch here). They did not build the MSV for high performance paintball use. They made it to work well for most applications. My exhaust holes are closed right when the valve pin starts to open. Minimizing blow by and wasted air. You can fix this on MSV's by shaving a few thou's off the tip of the valve pin. Just enough to close the exhaust when the valve starts to open. There is a little forward trigger slop to allow the exhaust holes to open. It doesn't need much and since everything is so close there is no need for a QEV.

Then there is always the fact that even tho you made your trig out of acrylic as well, the little spring in the valve isnt really strong enuff to return the trig very well. Alot of people chuff alot more than you did in your vid due to that. You could prolly turn your valve screw in a bit more to get a little more responce out of it???

I would like to eliminate the spring all together. But I like to have that little bit behind it just for a positive seal. I have it screwed in just enough to set the o-ring. The trigger is so light that you can feel the difference if you tighten the spring. I can probly fire the marker just by blowing on it LOL!

As far as chuffing, I'm just bad at walking

[ZapTheMad]

better watch they will be calling you Zap the mad genius , I guess you made this ??
very cool & the way it is made there is plenty of room for a lpr in the frame
Whats next lexan LPR ? would it take the pressure ??

I doubt the acrylic can take the pressure on the input side. But it can take some pressure! My LPR main seal went bad today when I was showing a friend. It fed a SCARY 850 PSI into the assembly. The LPR hose was blown up like a balloon to like 1/2"!!! It blew out the oring on the hose fitting on the LPR before anything got damaged. The hose is still fine after shrinking back down and my acrylic valve took the punishment. Not sure where I picked up the hose but I am impressed! I'm guessing it saw around 300-400 PSI before the o-ring blew out. I really need to put one of my flatlines on here. Not having an on/off in the system is kind of a pain. Here I was FREAKING OUT trying to get the reg turned down as fast as I could while I'm holding a BOMB!!!

So... I'm not afraid of it blowing up in my face any more!

[ZapTheMad]

Hey, that just set me off... im gonna do it.

Are you using a ULT in there?

Yes. This gun has ULT. I have tested it on a Classic Valve with RT on/off too. The trigger pull is a little heavier but it does work well.

[Elemental]

So how exactly did you go about making this beauty? Looks like most of it could be down with a nice drill press and tap set.

And where did you get the internals for it?

[cyberave68]

Very nice work , looks like you thought out the whole process and worked on the details before posting any info. Good to see someone take the time to work out the kinks before saying "I can do this" and "X" months later still nothing.

So how exactly did you go about making this beauty? Looks like most of it could be down with a nice drill press and tap set.

And where did you get the internals for it?

Looks like the internals are from a MSV and MPA-3...

See the pics from my post above.....^^^^^

[cyclic]

This is the closest reg I've been able to find so far that would look killer in there.....
I present the Clippard MAR-1P






Don't know if its input pressure would work, its not listed. But it quotes a max of 100PSI which I assume is the output pressure, as its rated for 5 scfm@100 psi

[Spider-TW]

nice....I really like the frame hump

That caught my eye too.

This doesn't look like it would dremel fit in an intelliframe.

Pretty.

[ZapTheMad]

Very nice work , looks like you thought out the whole process and worked on the details before posting any info. Good to see someone take the time to work out the kinks before saying "I can do this" and "X" months later still nothing.




Looks like the internals are from a MSV and MPA-3...

See the pics from my post above.....^^^^^

I have several scrapped parts on the shelf and I've learned much on this project. This is my 4th acrylic valve so far. I've done previous valves in aluminum and it's evolution has grown into this. This is the first one to perform like I want and the first worth showing off. I've definitely spent some time working out the bugs! It all started with the pneu-manifold that I put on ebay a couple years ago. (I hope that valve is still working great for the guy!)

cyclic, I have one of those Clippard regs. I don't think they are tough enough to reliably handle the input pressure. I do have ideas for internal regs but not for this frame. One of the things I want to try is something similar to a palmers micro rock but have the low pressure side (outer casing) in acrylic. That way the 800+ input pressure is contained in a metal plug. Another thing I want to try is making a drop with a regulator machined into it. Either way, I need a lathe to make the parts. The next thing on my to do list if I ever get enough saved up!

I'm calling this project done as is and moving on to the next frame in my quest for the perfect trigger! I want to try something in single trigger. If that doesn't work out then my Intelliframe is next on the chopping block. I bought this dye frame as fodder with the intent of cutting it up. I am very happy with how testing has turned out and ready to hack up my next victim!

So how exactly did you go about making this beauty? Looks like most of it could be down with a nice drill press and tap set. And where did you get the internals for it?

Drilling with a mill is 1000 times better! I milled all the parts by hand on my mini mill. Drilling is only half the job. I don't think it is possible to complete the whole thing with only a drill press. But feel free to prove me wrong

[cyclic]

Your design definitely captured the ideas of elagance I was looking for with designing my Pneumag. I was going to do the LPR right into the drop as you were, drill through the drop and make the line internal to it. "O" ringed into the grip frame to a fitting. Then drilling and tapping the MSV-2 so the input is on the bottom. Then to the MPA-3 drilled on its bottom using a 90 fitting to make the MSV to MPA hose the absolute shortest possible, decreasing dwell time with the air system. Also thought of a small air chamber just before the MSV to provide an air reserve for long shot strings and actuator consistancy.

Your unified design takes care of most of the issues and looks killer beyond belief. Only changes I saw that might help a small amount would be to move the inlet to the front which makes more room for the piston and piston return spring.

[ZapTheMad]

That caught my eye too.

This doesn't look like it would dremel fit in an intelliframe.

Pretty.

Glad you guys like the hump. It was a nice finishing touch to the grips. Very comfy and solid to hold on to.

Never underestimate the determination of a dremel operator!

[ZapTheMad]

Your design definitely captured the ideas of elagance I was looking for with designing my Pneumag. I was going to do the LPR right into the drop as you were, drill through the drop and make the line internal to it. "O" ringed into the grip frame to a fitting. Then drilling and tapping the MSV-2 so the input is on the bottom. Then to the MPA-3 drilled on its bottom using a 90 fitting to make the MSV to MPA hose the absolute shortest possible, decreasing dwell time with the air system. Also thought of a small air chamber just before the MSV to provide an air reserve for long shot strings and actuator consistancy.

Your unified design takes care of most of the issues and looks killer beyond belief. Only changes I saw that might help a small amount would be to move the inlet to the front which makes more room for the piston and piston return spring.

What return spring?

[MoeMag]

Hey... I have 16 hours a week with 2 of the best Haas CNC lathes there are, and a few manual ones


make me some prints and I will gladly make anything you would like in return for one of those...heck I would do it just because.


I have a dye frame just like that oops... at least I think i did. I dont remember if I sold it... errr

[warfinge]

That looks pretty sweet ZAP. Have you considered selling a completed grip kit? If so, got a ballpark price in mind? Trying to decide if I can afford to go this route. Is the Dye frame preferred or can you do a Benchy or intelliframe?

[Spider-TW]

I'm calling this project done as is and moving on to the next frame in my quest for the perfect trigger! I want to try something in single trigger. If that doesn't work out then my Intelliframe is next on the chopping block.

I've been trying to figure this out; one of three things -

1) add a pneumatic time delay after firing in the pneumatic trigger circuit or
2) add a valve pressure activated disconnect to the sear (three piece sear ) or
3) add a valve pressure disconnect to the pneumatic trigger

All are intended to eliminate the possibility of chuffing a pneutrigger before the valve recharges. Kind of like debounce on an electro. The first one is easy in theory, but probably very difficult to tune and maintain.

I think the easiest thing would be to have the return of the sear re-energize the pneumatic trigger. Another three-way would be hard for us non-acrylites, but maybe you could make it fit.