Project Pneupack

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  • FiXeL
    Registered Gun-Whore
    • May 2006
    • 819

    #1

    Project Pneupack

    The one thing i missed with my pneumag is the feel of holding something like a battery pack of an emag. In the few years i have been playing with mags i loved the feel of them, and even tho a bike grip is nice too its not my ideal setup. I've tried vertical and 15 degrees angle, and still was looking for something.

    A few weeks ago i went playing and left my e-tac at home, because the weather prediction was bad and i didnt want to risk troubles caused by rain. So i played with my pneu-ed tac-one. All went well and i started thinking: Why not make a pack that holds the LPR, and is a gas trough?

    So after a few short attempts with free cad software that didnt work out that well, i dusted off some very old CD-roms that have been collecting dust for over 5 years now, and installed 3D studio Max V.2.0 (yeah it's ancient but i don't have a recent build)

    After some moving around and changing ideas, i came up with this:



    The cilinders in the shape indicate screw holes, air holes, etc. Everything was modeled so i had a sure idea of the placement of all the holes and no unintended intersections. (a.k.a. leaks) The big green cilinder is a palmers LPR.

    Based on this model, i started to hand code the CNC program needed to mill this. This was kind of hard, because i had to plan every machining operation beforehand not knowing how it would look as a final product, or any snags that would turn up during milling. But i've decided that coding as much as possible at home, and polishing up at the machine was the best way to not spend alot of time at work writing the code on the machine itself.

    I've spent about 2-3 afternoons programming all the code needed, and then another 15 minutes editing the file because there were some errors when reading it into the machine, and another hour or so editing and fine tuning it while milling.

    Milling you say?

    Yes. Before i started writing the program, i've milled this part to check if my contour matched that of a emag battery pack:



    The shape was a bit off, but within reasonable margins, but it could be a bit longer. So based on this i've edited my 3D model to make the base 3mm longer than this test piece. The goal of this is to make the pack look like its part of the gripframe, that is partially inside it. Also the front of the rail is flat, and the grip rounded. with the original pack this is where the thumbscrew goes, so i have milled a flat transition on the top.



    This is about the idea i'm going for, but not with a emag pack.



    First prototype of the top of the pneupack. Still need to finish some things and edit some other things, but this will be the shape basicly. The four holes in the corners are for 4x 8-32 UNC screws, the 1/8" NPT hole for the LPR, and the hole right to it is where the air will enter the pack from the lowers. The lowers will have a recess for a o-ring to make a seal.



    Yeah, also some ULE milling is present, but this still has to be refined. Also the slot for the trigger guard is not deep enough, so i will correct that tomorrow.



    Lower part is also machined, besides the internals. I'm not sure when i'll start on that one because the top part still needs some things inproved. And probably i'll mill a new piece because i'm not sathisfied with some details so far.

    When i'm done:

    Unfortunatly i cannot produce these, even on a limited scale. My employer does allow me to do personal milling work, but was very clear about commercial work- no. So i will be making 1 for myself, and then make the drawings and CNC program public for anyone to make one for personal use. For fellow machinists that want the program, your machine must be able to read Heidenhain dialogue programming, and the programming was done in metric values. Threaded holes however are still UNC, UNF and NPT.

    Maybe i can convert this to more common ISO programming, but i'm not sure. Well i'll keep you guys posted on the progress made with future updates.

    Thanks for reading.
  • trains are bad
    Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 1751

    #2
    Impressive. Where do you work? I'm very jealous. I have have multimillion dollar laboratory equipment and characterization tools at work, but not a mill in sight.
    TRB's feedback

    Comment

    • MechMags
      Registered User
      • Sep 2006
      • 174

      #3
      very nice... looks like it will work out quite well.

      Thanks for sharing. Definately interested in more info and project progress.

      Comment

      • olinar
        mech>electro
        • May 2006
        • 1777

        #4
        Looks promising!

        I always loved the feel of the battery pack as opposed to a "tube" style foregrip, there just more to hold onto.

        Keep it up!

        Comment

        • maniacmechanic
          PrestonCoPaintball
          • Aug 2006
          • 3453

          #5
          Fix , as allways nice work & an excellent idea , let us know who gets the code , i do believe i'll have to have 1 of these made for my pnu
          Just like olinar I love the feel of the battery pack grip

          Comment

          • FiXeL
            Registered Gun-Whore
            • May 2006
            • 819

            #6
            Thanks! Still have alot of work to do before i can even call the top part finished. Currently it does not fit the triggerguard, so i will have to mill the slot deeper than i first expected. Also the ULE milling of the top part is something i will have to look at for a second time, because the walls are now about 1/16" and that is too thin to my liking. Also there's more material inside that can be milled out but this i will have to program yet.

            It would have been alot easier if i could draw this in a decent cad/cam program and make a program for the CNC mill with this. But i currently don't have the time or motivation to learn a new cad program, and the free versions lack to much functions i would need for this. Heck, i'm amazed i even got this far without a production drawing. All milling so far was done by making a rough program from the data in 3DSMax in Cimco edit, and working from that at the machine. I'm a machinist, not an engineer. I'm used to make parts from a production drawing, not designing stuff from scratch. So this is kind of a challenge, but i have the 3D model and my program, and i'll work from there.

            Refinements for the top part:

            - Drill the 8-32 boltholes 4,3mm instead of 5mm and adjust the countersink depth
            - Mill the slot for the trigger guard deeper and add a slot for the top part
            - Refine the contour of the part covering the trigger guard
            - Refine the ULE milling (more wall thickness on the outside and go deeper)
            - Refine the contour that matches the top with the rail (more flowing)

            Ugh, good thing this is not for production....

            Comment

            • C_losjoker
              Puro Tico
              • May 2008
              • 1121

              #7
              awesome work, i would want one too.

              Comment

              • FiXeL
                Registered Gun-Whore
                • May 2006
                • 819

                #8
                Well, i've been working on the top half of the pack today...



                And it finally fits!!

                But alas, its not perfect yet. When bolted on there is not enough clearance to remove the gripframe if the rail bushing is sticking out too much. Therefore the gripframe cannot be removed unless the pack is screwed loose from the rail. This is unacceptable, since it hinders easy maintenance and cleaning.



                Here i highlighted some improvement points in the design. Because of the top contour milled a bit to tight, there is almost no room to move the gripframe up, and thus causing too little play to remove it. Also the deepest part of the chamber can be milled deeper. This is not for clearance, but ULE milling. There's enough room for the gripframe, and it's not visible from the outside, so we're going to mill it deeper. The surface at the bottom also will have to be milled deeper, to allow for more play for removing the gripframe. For now it fits perfectly, but there's not enough room to tilt the gripframe of its rail bushing.

                Also the contours of that part wil be altered... im not so fond of the rounding in it, so i will edit that in the next version.



                Also i did some more ULE milling from the inside. I've added 0.5mm to the overall wall thickness, so from 1/16" wall thickness, it will go up .02" I've shaved a noticable weight off this part, and im starting to get worried if it was too much... It does not have to be super strong because it's just a grip, but there is high psi air going trough it and it should hold up to unintentional abuse. The wall thickness of the AGD battery pack extrusion is 1/16" so i'm guessing it should be ok.



                Here are some additional pics.



                Well this is the update so far... Maybe i'll modify a few things tomorrow, but i'm not sure yet. I've had a run of different aluminum parts and this was easy to squeeze in, but i have a different workpiece coming up, and it will be hard to mill this in between. But no worries tho, atleast i can work on my CNC code in the meanwhile.

                Things to do on the top part:

                - Add more ULE milling
                - Add more trigger guard clearance
                - Edit the contour of the piece against the trigger guard so it flows better
                - Pressure test the current design
                - Drill the air in hole 4mm deeper for more air flow
                - Refine the contour that matches the top with the rail (more flowing)

                Corrected:

                - Unneeded milling operations
                - Drill the 8-32 holes smaller
                - Refine the ULE milling (more wall thickness on the outside and go deeper)

                Comment

                • Dend78
                  Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 2963

                  #9
                  NICE!!!

                  2k2 Angel LCD
                  turbo trigger
                  CP volumizer
                  PIPE KIT

                  2k Angel CnC LCD
                  Vert Frame
                  Freak Barrel

                  B2k x-milled
                  micro rock
                  Dye sticky 3's
                  vertical max-flo
                  Edge barrel with blue J&J tip

                  Egg 2 y board
                  Empire Reloader
                  Dye Throttle 91/4500
                  Crossfire 114ci/3000
                  Angel Air Reg

                  Comment

                  • Warwitch
                    Resident Skeptic

                    • May 2006
                    • 3176

                    #10
                    Hehe, I can see I started a fire around here.


                    Very cool to see the new and different direction our modders are taking with it. Im loving your concept and design.

                    Comment

                    • Spider-TW
                      U R techno-literate!

                      • Oct 2006
                      • 3554

                      #11
                      I love to read the reports Fix.

                      I used to dream of having access to CNC machines, especially when the biggest use of them at work was cutting a few dozen clamping blocks or a one-off hydrostatic bearing.

                      Now I don't have the time to use one if they gave it to me. So I just watch you guys play with the real toys.

                      Comment

                      • FiXeL
                        Registered Gun-Whore
                        • May 2006
                        • 819

                        #12
                        Thanks all for the kind words!

                        Today i've edited some improvements and milled it partially. Also i have confiscated some high grade aluminum leftovers from another workpiece for making the final model. Not sure what grade of aluminum it is, but if it's good enough for parts for radar equipment, it should be ok. Another co-worker has confiscated some of the leftovers to mill a part for his motorbike.



                        I've added more ULE milling to the trigger guard hump, and made more clearance so the trigger frame can be removed while the pneupack is bolted onto the rail. Tested it and it removing the trigger frame is now hassle-free.

                        Also i've made some improvements:



                        I did not mill these modifications yet, because this is just the prototype, and it can be done in the final run. Unfortunatly i also extended the ULE milling from the top view, and i have to re-edit that to leave enough material to mill the radius on the outside. It's now very thin, and if i increase the radius to the one i want, i'm afraid there will be some holes to look trough...

                        I really don't want to do this part again, so i'll edit that on monday, or i'll go the easy way and return the radius as it is now. It's weekend now, so the only thing i can do now is pressure test the setup this weekend. I'll have to plug the air in hole somehow, maybe i'll just tap it and plug it with a set screw.

                        I have currently enough material stored to mill 8 packs, and there's more to use too. So far i have been doing my milling hush hush in between jobs and lunch breaks, but if i was to do a small run i must ask permission to do so. Maybe i'll do a small run of these, and have them annoed. I still have to see how everything goes, and if i could do this run i'm thinking to have them annoed in the states by the anno guy that does my gun. I also have to find somebody that would want to sell them for me there, since shipping costs would be alot lower domestic, than international.

                        Ugh, the dillema... Maybe i'm thinking ahead of things... Let's get the final model ready first! The CNC code will be made available to the AO community, no rights attached. Still have to think up how to properly set this up, to prevent commercial exploit...

                        Comment

                        • Warwitch
                          Resident Skeptic

                          • May 2006
                          • 3176

                          #13
                          Originally posted by FiXeL

                          Ugh, the dillema... Maybe i'm thinking ahead of things... Let's get the final model ready first! The CNC code will be made available to the AO community, no rights attached. Still have to think up how to properly set this up, to prevent commercial exploit...

                          That is unbelievably unselfish (and cool) +100 e-cool points for you Fix.

                          Comment

                          • FiXeL
                            Registered Gun-Whore
                            • May 2006
                            • 819

                            #14
                            Well, what else should i do? I want one for myself, but there's no reason not to share all the work i'm putting into this. I'm going to try to make a few of these, but there's no way i can nor want to go into buisness selling automag upgrade parts. Also there's the not to be overseen detail that i live in the netherlands, so shipping them would be expensive unless i find somebody in the states that is willing to sell them for me. But i allready have a fulltime job and a parttime job so there's no need for another one.

                            I have been pressure testing the top part today. The setup is kind of crude, and dare i say dangerous? The part was made from ST51 series aluminum, what we in the buisness call construction aluminum and i was not sure if the wall thickness was enough to withstand the pressure.

                            Disclaimer:

                            PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS YOURSELVES! THIS IS DANGEROUS!guessing this part is safe. I will be pressure testing the completed pack with the scuba tank, and this will be done in a controlled environment with 2000 psi. Even tho 1300 psi is unlikely to be used in any pneu setup, i want to be absolutely sure this design is safe.

                            Comment

                            • TwilightG
                              www.BigEvilOnline.com

                              • Mar 2007
                              • 1387

                              #15
                              Is that a grenade asa that you used in your pressure testing? How ironic

                              Comment

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