Mag-Efficiency

[vf-xx]

Ok I know that there have been a number of other posts about mag's efficiency, but I'm looking for something a little different.

I'm trying to find hard numbers on exactly how much air it takes to fire a mag. I need numbers for both classic valves and RT valves (yes this includes emag valves as well).

If you could post here what kind of tank you use (modle and size), what psi its running at, along with the minimum number of shots you get off of the average fill (ie. if you think you get 400-450, just tell me 400).

[vf-xx]

Come on people, gimme a hand. Please?

[vf-xx]

41 veiws and still no replies? I thought you guys were better than this.

[logamus]

all i have ever used is an old 48/3k preset at 800 psi. i get around 550-600 shots.

[nicad]

not 100% hard numbers, but from what I recall the classic mag ran at 350-385(??)psi @ 290fps.

lvl10 mags run at ~580-600psi @ 290fps (longest spring).
they all have a .55ci dump chamber.

so figure a 68/4500 tank holds 306000ci 'energy' (68ci * 4500psi).

old mag each shot took 385 * .55 = ~211ci energy per shot
so 306000 / 211 = ~1450 shots

new (lvl10) mag takes 600 * .55 = 330ci energy per shot, so 306000 / 330 = ~927 shots

little bit of a big drop there.
all this can be found if you search for pbjosh's postings regarding energy, pressure, and/or volumes.

classic/rt/emag/etc all ran the same volume and bolt operated the same, so they should all be dam near the same.

out!

[Sancho'sZ]

up

I run a classic with a Maxflow 114 3K set at 1100 lbs
I get approximately 1000 rds per fill

[edweird]

with my 68 3k flatline I get around 950... but my RTP is hardly tuned to perfection

[athomas]

To elaborate on what Nicad said.

A 68 ci tank contains 4500psi - 800psi = 3700psi usable air. That equals 251600 in - lbs of energy.

Non level 10:

operating psi @ 385 * .55 = 211.75
minus residual psi @ 50 *.55 = 27.5
energy used = 184.25

251600/184.25 = 1365 shots per tank

level 10 using long spring:

operating psi @ 600psi * .55ci = 330.75
minus residual psi @ 200psi * .55ci = 110.00
energy used = 220.75

251600/220.75 = 1140 shots per tank



I personaly get 1000 shots from my 88 ci 3000psi tank using a level 10 mag running the middle spring.

[FooTemps]

i gt around 500-575 shots off my 48/3000 flatline on my classic mag.

[vf-xx]

athomas but what you're telling me you're getting doesn't match the numbers you're giving.

3000psi -800psi = 2200psi Useable => 2200psi * 88ci = 193,600 in-lbs

Using the numbers for the long spring LX

193600/220.75 = 877 shots

Are you saying that the middle spring gets you 125 shots?


Hrm, actually now that I think of it it's probably it. Especially if you're running your tank output just a touch under 800psi.

Does anybody know how the ULT effects these numbers?

[nicad]

just fyi, my numbers didnt take into account the minimum pressure to fire, they just simply ran down to 0psi. So in reality shot numbers are lower than what I posted.. sorry.

out!

[athomas]

I'm guessing my setup was working even when the tank was operating under the rated output as it approached "empty". That, combined with slightly different efficiency which would alter the actual operating pressures within the dump chamber, could acount for any differences in the numbers calculated vs measured. I don't think they are off by much though.

[vf-xx]

Thank you all. That helps me much. Now on to futher questions.

1. Does the ULT affect efficiency? If so by how much.

2. I will be running two mag valves. Should I run just one large tank at a higher psi output, two tanks, or some other configuration?

I'm guessing one tank at a higher psi should work, but will it kill my efficency?

Is it safe to presume that the dump chamber size and operating pressures were given out by Tom at one point? If so can you tell me where he posted these?

[RobAGD]

Guy all those number dont mean crap without some other infomation.

What barrel are you getting those readings from ?

example

68 4500 - Lapco 12" 689 = about 1500 shots
68 4500 - PMI Perfect 693 = about 1200-1300 shots
68 4500 - Smart Parts AA, Dye Ultralite, BoomStick, CP 2 peice = 900-1000 at best

So just throwing general number out there to get a shot count isnt giving your a good or accurate numbers.

-Robert

[iownamag]

thanks for the info Rob. Do you know the info for a stock emag barrel? Thats what I was using so I guess it was efficient because it has no porting right? Thanks again man, my friend with the retro mag was using a jj ceramic and my other mag with the 45/45 was using a longshot barrel so it all makes sense!