The quick and dirty Racegun setup harware

[Ice-Child]

I dont remember where I seen this at, but I saved it for future reference. I think it will help out alot of people in setting up their Race frames.

The quick and dirty Racegun setup harware:

-Take your cocking rod out.

-Unscrew your back block until it just touches the back of the gun when pushed all the way forward (you want the ram to extend fully under pressure)

-put in yout cocking rod, and adjust it so that when you manually pull back on your back block, the bolt should clear the breech fully (actually it should go slightly past the point of of opening the breech) and the hammer should _just_ catch the sear. Meaning you will feel the resistance from the spring as you are pulling the block back, you should feel the sear catch just before block will stop moving as you pull. The goal is to have the sear catch as close to the back movement as possible (wel within 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch after) This will keep your sear from skipping over the sear due to your mainspring pushing it over.

- Put the gun in clasic mode

- Air it up, unscrew your LPR adjuster so that your back block doesn't move.

- While holding the trigger adjust your LPR (Rock, Jackhammer, whatever) so that the breech opens all the way and the sear catches.. turn in 1/4 turn past that point, and leave it.

- Put it in semi

- Set your CTO time to 40 and your CTC time to 40 and your load to 1 (Leave your Dwell and shot at 7 each).

- Pull the trigger several times - does it cock and fire each time?

- If it cocks, drop your CTO and CTC to 35. If not see below.

- Pull the trigger several times - does it still cock and fire every time?

- If it cocks, drop your CTO and CTC to 30. If not see below.

- Pull the trigger several times - does it still cock and fire every time?

- Keep doing this until the gun stops cocking and firing every time. Eventually the gun will stop cocking and firing, it may cock twice in a row, or might move the back block several times without firing, etc..

- You want to drop your times by 5ms each time, until it stops working reliably and at that point, go up by 1 each time until it catches every time, then add ~3 to you CTO (for that extra safe margin), and leave your CTC 3 ms lower than your CTO.

- Now you need to find your load time (figure 35ms for a 12v revy, less for a halo or Eggy) essentially you want to keep adding to it until you no longer chop - and you are good to go. If you have an eye - then no worries on your load time, set it to 1, and turn on your eye :-)

[Ice-Child]

up

[mh53eplt]

I found "The Quick 5-minute Time Job-Quote" on the racegun.dk forum before it crashed.
My WarpedSportz Dark Cocker is setup as follows: Free Flow internals - Medium springs, Tungsten 70gram hammer, Nylatron Bolt & Pin, Palmers Micro rock, FF Ram by SMC w/QEVs, FF Lightweight Window Block, Titanium Pump Arm/Actuator Rod/Cocking Rod, Rechargable racegrip, HaloB Z-code, 12volt Warpfeed, Apoc2K 90/45. My setting are "Semi-Auto 5,5,17,14,15" and baby rocks. As soon as my eye covers come in from UK I will install my ACE.
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The Quick 5-minute Time Job
"It is easy. Everybody can do it, unless you have a Mac."

Make sure your gun has air, a barrel plug or bag, and you don?t have any paint in the gun.

-Download the RIP.
-Hook up the Grip to your PC or Palm.
-Turn the RIP to the following settings:
-Expert Mode ON
-Close = Open Off
-Fire Mode ?Semi-Auto?

-To tune the Dwell and Shot it takes paint and time. For the most part, most guns work just fine set to 7 or 8 milliseconds.
-Turn your Open to 35
-Turn you Load to 1
-Turn your Close to 30

Cycle the gun a couple of times to see if it shoots.

If the Gun fires just fine you can drop the Open time 5 ms at a time. Till it starts ?Burping?

If the Gun ?Burps? because the sear isn?t connecting, then you raise the Open time.

After you play around with these adjustments you will find out how fast your Ram takes to open by the Millisecond.

For figuring out how fast your Load is time it depends on your loader. If you feel brave, adjust the times lower. If you Chop, raise the Load. . If your gun has blowback you will need to up the Load. Here is a guideline:

For a VL Rev: For the most part runs between a 25-35 ms load. If you have the new paddles and an X-board the Load can be low.

For the Ricochet: Load is between 25-35 ms.

For the HALO: Only 10 Milliseconds are needed for the most part. If you are scared, run at 15.

For the Warp: With a good setup, and maybe the Warp cable, you can run with a 10-millisecond load, like the HALO.

For Close timing, set it to be a bit lower than the Open, by 10-20% depending on your setup.
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This expert advice from Mats Olsson, our swedish Cocker guru: To find the optimum (shortest) Open and Close times for my setup?

To find the right Open and Close times for your Racegrip and Cocker, go through these steps:

1/ Set to Semi mode
2/ Set (or leave) your LPR to the right cocking pressure.
3/ Set Load to 1mS
4/ Increase Open step by step from 10mS until the lug stops riding along and actually catches the sear (single shot, pause, single shot etc).

You now have the minimum Open time set.

5/ Add a few mS to be on the safe side.
6/ Set Close to 2-3 mS lower than Open. You can experiment with lower Close times later on, too low will cause blow back.
7/ Set Load to 35mS and work down until you start chopping (or feel happy with your BPS).

You probably end up with something like 8,8,30,35,27 or so with a 12v revvy.
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I wanted to know if there was a way to "time in" ball suck, or vacuum suction, now that I can control my Cocker's timing by the millisecond. This is a great way to get the highest rates of fire, and is the opposite of blowback. I was reading some old posts and here's what I came up with......Quote
I don't know if you have seen the Racegun R.I.P. software, but it allows a you to time 5 points on the firing cycle of the gun. Shot, Dwell, Open, Load, Close. Broken down, and timing related to them.

Shot is the timing for the solenoid in the grip to release the hammer. This can be set down to 5 ms in the RIP program but with earlier software this can be set to less. With a bit of setting It can run at 4 ms or less. This is only for releasing the sear.

Dwell it the between the Grip Solenoid turn off point and the time the second solenoid is opened. This is where a person can tune out blow-back and tune in ball suck, something I really didn't believe in until I did it. To time in 'Ball Suck' or time out blow back a person needs to have about 13-18 ms total cumulative time with the Shot and the Dwell settings. I have found that most LP cockers, short of a well tuned AKA, have very long dwell time. Blow back is still felt at 15 ms total Shot/Dwell timing. This can add alot to the total time on the 'Cocker. If a person has a fast acting valve, with a healthy valve spring or a large cup seal, they can lower the total Shot/dwell to about 10 ms. That is total for the Hammer to release from teh sear, the hammer to move forward, hit the valve, and the valve to close again, and then the time for 'Ball Suck' affects to happen.

Open is the time it takes for the Ram to push all the bolt/backblock/cocking rod and such back to re-engage the sear. This is based on a bunch of fun stuff, but for the most part the largest restricting factor is the spring tension on the hammer. If the hammer spring is set really heavy this will slow the action down considerably. And a heavy hammer and/or spring will lengthen the valve dwell time. Open on a fast cocker can be under 18 ms. Most run about 20 ms or more. If a person wants to lower this time they can apply more pressure to the ram or get lighter components.

Load is the time it takes to feed the gun. Simply put, load is the time the bolt is truly open. Load and Open are really one action on the Solenoidvalve on the front bracket of the Racegun Setup. Total they cover the On period of the SMC Solenoidvalve, but they also can be broken up into two periods of the mechanical operation. If a gun is force fed, Through a Warp, it can achieve a VERY high ROF.

Finally the close time is when the Front Solenoid valve is turned off and the bolt moves back. This is set to allow the bolt to get all the way back before the hammer releases again. Timing this too short and you get blowback from the valve being open before the bolt is closed.

And this.......Quote
Okay, I also thought 'Ball Suck' was a total myth.

Then I got the Racegun grip for the 'Cocker and started playing around.

A couple of things. Cockers need to have a good sealing bolt, no matter what. If they don't ball suck won't happen. In fact, with alot of the o-ringless bolt tips I have found I can't even feed them with a HALO. A 'SuperFly' bolt has about a .68 od, while the Breech is about .689 or so.

As for 'Ball Suck' I found it while playing and testing Blowback and Dwell settings. Since I can adjust the dwell by the millisecond (.001 of a second) and the open times I can tune in the cycle of the 'Cockers to have the bolt open right after the hammer drops.

I had a gun set to 5 ms for the dwell. I noticed I had some blowback. Just a hint. This was on a gun that had a long valve dwell. I was testing with tissue. After I added 3ms I noticed serious 'Ball Suck' on the tissue. Then I did the tissue test with paint. I had to add 1 ms to get ball suck again, and then after that, the gun fed like a charm.

After testing and setting the gun to 6-9 ms (depending on the gun) I can normally run at a really high ROF using a non-motorized hopper (VL200) and feed reliably with the gun turned 75-80 degrees to either side, with a halfway full loader. With the Eye installed, I have notice NO significant ROF changes between the motorized hoppers and the VL200.

So, can 'Ball Suck' be tuned in? Yup, but if it is off by a millisec or 2 it will not be noticed. Also you have to time with paint in there, and your bolt must have NO blowback to be able to even find it. With almost no bolt being made for the 'Cocker these days with a front o-ring, and some of the delrin bolts being far to small to seal, you will have a much harder time testing 'Ball Suck' than you realize.

I'm not sure if you can do this with the EBLade, but it's pretty cool to be able to tune-in suction with a Racegun
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This is also why Josh made The Mutant Bolt, an all Delrin bolt with 3 different sized tips to match your breech depending on breech-size and swelling (from heat, not oil).

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I just did a little testing on mine......

I'm using the heavy FF valve spring, which is slightly lighter than a stock valve spring, and I'm getting good suction using these settings:

Shot= 7
Dwell= 7
Open= 25
Load= 10
Close= 23
BPS= 15.4

I tried taking the dwell down to 5ms (which would have been 15.9 BPS instead of 15.4). I didn't get blowback, but there was no suction either. Funny how just 2 milliseconds can find the sweetspot