hmm, mabye a way to go rt with classic?

[danheneise]

i was thinking about the different airflow between the classic valve and rt valve. now with the idea of the rt valve and that the air hits the on/off pin first before the regulator, i thought mabye a (permenant) mod could be done to a classic valve to make it have a, possible significant reactive trigger.



the red line you see to the left of the on/off assy. would be a hole drilled from the two air channels. now if my thinking is correct, wouldn't this allow some full pressure air to hit the on/off pin and give some "rt" feel, while still allowing the regulator to regulate the rest of the air coming in, green arrows show direction of airflow. the only problem i could think of is that it would rid of the purpose of the valve pin, which if i'm thinking right, a regulator needs a valve pin to shut off the flow of air.

[Cristobal]

Creative thinking, but I see two problems:
1.) The hole indicated by the red line would effectively bypass the regulator, rendering the back half of the valve useless, and meaning that you would have to control velocity with your input pressure.

2.) The hole in question would be hard to drill -- its in the middle of a chunk of metal with no access to the outside. To create it you'd have to drill all the way through from the outside, and then plug the outer portion of that hole (because you don't want the valve to leak), leaving just the part indicated in red. Instead of goin to all that work, and since the reg isn't going to do anything anyway, you might as well just take out your reg seat and be done with it.

[danheneise]

hmm, i dunno about that, yes you're right about it being extremely hard to drill out, but i don't think it would bypass the reg especially if you kept the on/off pin held up, eventually all of the air chambers would be regulated to ~400psi, if my thinking is right this same thing would go for the whole valve chamber, just look at how the rt valve is, the air fills up the valve air chamber WHILE regulating, which i think would happen the same thing here too

but still yes it would be uber hard to drill out, but then i wonder how manufactures drill out holes in say any complex gun, example being an angel or viking where there are multiple holes for the solinoid air flow, i'm sure there would be a way

[personman]

The only thing this would do is blow up your on/off and probally destroy your sear. Not to mention that you couldnt pull the trigger and the bolt would be leaking like crazy.

[danheneise]

Originally posted by personman
The only thing this would do is blow up your on/off and probally destroy your sear. Not to mention that you couldnt pull the trigger and the bolt would be leaking like crazy.

care to explain? the on/off assembly in the classic, as far as i know, is constructed the same way as the rt on/off and that one for sure supports a full 800psi so i don't think that would be blowing up any time soon, as for the bolt, the sear would be latched up before any air starts to rush past the on/off keeping the bolt stationary, and if you look at the animation in the rt video, you see that air comes into the air chamber behind the bolt at 800psi WHILE regulating, which if i'm right this would be the same scenario for this mod

[personman]

800 PSI would make the valve explode.. unless its rated higher. The on/off valve is used to about 300-400 psi. The ball sees around 70 psi. If you did this mod, and the gun actually STILL fired, you would have a hell of a time getting the velocity down enough to be anywhere in the legal range.

I could be wrong though.
The air that goes into the on/off should be around 400 psi. The mag does not run on 800 psi, despite what most everyone says. The back half of the valve regulates the pressure down.

[Cristobal]

Originally posted by danheneise
but i don't think it would bypass the reg especially if you kept the on/off pin held up, eventually all of the air chambers would be regulated to ~400psi, if my thinking is right this same thing would go for the whole valve chamber, just look at how the rt valve is, the air fills up the valve air chamber WHILE regulating, which i think would happen the same thing here too

Let me clarify:
The hole indicated by the red line would allow air to go strait from the input to the top of the on/off -- this bypasses the regulator and makes the back of the valve completely useless, because nothing that it does will change the pressure of the air going into the on/off. This would NOT produce the RT effect.

The RT works by regulating chamber pressure, rather than input pressure: in order to get to the on/off, the air still has to go past the valve pin, and when the chamber reaches ~400 psi the reg causes the valve pin to move, which shuts OFF the flow of air to the on/off. This is why the RT allows you to charge the chamber with an >800 psi input (getting you faster recharge and a reactive trigger) while still limiting chamber pressure to a maximum of ~400 psi when it is fully charged

With your design, you have no way to regulate the chamber pressure independent of the input pressure since there would be no such shutoff: the chamber would charge to the full input pressure -- which means you can only run ~400 psi into the gun or it will shoot hot.

[Dayspring]

Valve is rated to 3000psi. So in case your tank dumped all 3000psi into it, the valve would be ok. Although I doubt your air lines could take it.

Originally posted by personman
800 PSI would make the valve explode.. unless its rated higher.

[personman]

I knew that, I was talking about the on/off valve. I was assuming that the regulator was the part rated to 3k psi...

[danheneise]

the on/off valve is basically the same in the rt as it is in a classic valve, o-rings are the same as is the construction and material

[Hexis]

How do you think air gets to the chamber? Through that passage. All your mod would do is elimnate the regulator's function. Look inside a Classic Valve's On/Off, there is one hole that feeds it air, the top of the on/off.

RTs function differently because there are two pressures at work in the on/off, the line pressure (~800psi) and the chamber pressure (~400psi). Pushing on the top of the on/off is the line presure, holing it back (basically) is the chamber pressure. When you fire, the chamber drops to 0psi, and the on/off pin now has double the force pushing back on it. As it fills the chamber now provides the 400psi, making the trigger pull light again.

To do what you want, you would have to redesign the on/off to seal (like the RTs) and route regulated air through a different path to the chamber. I think it would be far easier to just get an XValve. Nevermind the weight savings.