concept trigger

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • hoffmanbykes
    Registered User
    • May 2004
    • 3

    #1

    concept trigger

    Yep, it's a break beam eye, only for the trigger.

    There's actually an interesting way you can make a gun faster using this technology and the actual defination of nppl rules constituting a trigger pull.

    The NPPL rule is that a pull is any application and release of force. Optical sensors, are not binary, and so can take advantage of this, as they don't have a set point of release (thats programmed in as a threshold by WDP)

    With optical sensors, and some clever coding, you could create a trigger that fires everytime the trigger moves back at all (and the corresponding decrease in beam intensity) but resets and is ready for a pull as soon as the trigger has moved back at all. This would help every finger count, because right now it takes a good bit of rhythm and letting the trigger return and all that blather to make all your finger pulls count when walking. With this potential system you could have an inch worth of trigger pull, and just hammer away with both fingers, and never lose a shot.

    Because of the way the firing and reset points are calculated, I call it a differential trigger.

    You'd still need to run a debounce filter on it, but all your intentional pulls would be registered, something no set point system can claim.

    You would still have a return setup. The point is your pull could have a full inch of play, but depending on the thresholds you set, you could have as short a pull as you want (.01mm). Within that inch of trigger play, you have infinite firing and return points, for as soon as the trigger has moved backwards at all, from any position where it was fired, it is considered reset. In the course of the 1/2" triger pull, i could fire many shots if I demonstrated (conforming with NPPL rules mind you) a application of relase in force. This would break down as me pulling a 1/4", releasing 1/8", and repeating that cycle 8 times throughout a one inch trigger pull.

    No set trigger point eliminates the need for a trigger you can barely see moving. The weight of the trigger would be set to a person's preference.

    Basically, it IS the NPPL rule. The NPPL rules don't classify this as a double trigger, or anything like that, nor would this setup appreciably more bounce than a light trigger with a similar threshold level.
  • Glickman
    *Insert Witty Phrase*
    • Sep 2003
    • 2673

    #2
    im pretty sure most high tech guns use break beams to shoot, ie, Matricies.

    one thing i foresee as a problem, is bounce, you would need a very high filtering, as bounce would be a HUGE problem.

    also, it sounds like it might be TOO sensitive. if youve seen the A4 video, they shake it and it shoots, which might be a little unsafe.

    but other than that, it sounds pretty good, you would prolly be able to reach 18 bps easy by putting ut finger horizontal, then tense up, and make it spazz out.

    so other than bounce, and oversensibility, its a decent idea, but programming would be a little difficult as well.

    Comment

    • yeahitsdave
      Registered User
      • Mar 2003
      • 27

      #3
      are you saying, like, use a beam and every time you break teh beam with your fingers it fires? if so, that would be rather brilliant, it would eliminate the potential of the shake-n-fire as previous stated, then again, i dont think he realized what you were trying to portay in this idea either... no other gun shoots like that...
      who needs a signature...

      Comment

      • Glickman
        *Insert Witty Phrase*
        • Sep 2003
        • 2673

        #4
        i dont think your understanding what hes saying. hes saying is certain guns have IR break beam eyes to fire (i think like eblade) these guns have a certain threshhold u need to cross to fire it, get rid of that threshold, and program it to be able to fire after moving back the trigger a little, instead of alot, and continue to do so.

        and its not a break beam for the fingers, its for the trigger, as its illegal because you need to be able apply and realease some sort of pressure to fire it. as well as it being increadibly unsafe.

        how did you think it was a break beam eye with your finger when his first sentance was : "Yep, it's a break beam eye, only for the trigger."

        is this what your talking about?
        Last edited by Glickman; 06-03-2004, 10:09 AM.

        Comment

        • bertmcmahan
          Not pop, it's all Coke
          • Jan 2002
          • 1960

          #5
          I dont think Matrices have break beam eyes (at least not all of them). My brother has one and it's microswitch.
          AIM-bertmcmahan
          My email:[email protected]
          My feedback thread
          Good traders: richie,Roguefactor,moufo48,845,brtncstm160,vf-xx

          Mags don't shoot darts... they shoot nails.
          I used to be bertmcmahan, that I did.

          Comment

          • Chipper

            #6
            You would need an extremely hard spring or something of that nature that would only give way to a certian extent to move the trigger back, but that takes away from your intire idea. Is therea way of making a laser read distance? If so, you could point it at the back of the trigger and when the trigger is moved at all it would set off.
            And wouldn't the trigger frame be a little large?

            Comment

            • painTech
              Erg... im a pirate
              • Jan 2004
              • 282

              #7
              it would have to use a reflective eye otherwise yur frame would be obese. and yeah they can do disance, it would be put in at angal and when the trigger comes back and meets it at a parralel angel it fires. i might put this on a gun.

              Comment

              • nicad
                wannabe newbe
                • May 2002
                • 992

                #8
                I'd be interested in how this behaves.. could work well.
                however, current optical setups might not be the best choice since your no longer looking for a specific point to "break" the beam. You would want more of a linear read on the trigger location.. any +movement = fire, then any -movement = reset, etc. sure build some hysteresis into it via software. A pot would be optimal, but would wear out too fast. Could still use optical but instead of a "edge" to break the beam, use a gradient to from black to transparent, or a long cut angle edge so it slowly interferes with the IR beam as the trigger is pulled in.

                main problem would be mechanical bounce. it would be like having a trigger with the backstop being the same as the firing point.. as soon as it fires, it will have - movement and continued finger pressure would result in +movement, causing a runaway situation.
                ColinMoritz

                Chord, Chord V2, Dallara, Karta, current project: (coming soon)

                Comment

                • Lurker27
                  Registered User
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 287

                  #9
                  Thanks for giving me credit, copying and pasting the post from PBN. It was my original Idea, ya know.

                  I've already figured out how to do it, and should have one on a gun by the end of July....I'll tell you guys if it passes/fails.

                  Comment

                  • nicad
                    wannabe newbe
                    • May 2002
                    • 992

                    #10
                    hoffmanbykes- that is pretty lame.. its is a direct copy/paste job from Lurker27..

                    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...ial+%2Btrigger is Lurker27's thread on pbnation.

                    Lurker please accept my apologies on behalf of AO. Although hoffmanbykes could have been trying to just post this as "news" (I doubt it), it was performed in a manor of trying to take credit for it. Seeing that he has this only one post, he will probably never reply to this and apologize for himself.

                    good luck with your project Lurker.

                    out!
                    ColinMoritz

                    Chord, Chord V2, Dallara, Karta, current project: (coming soon)

                    Comment

                    • Lurker27
                      Registered User
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 287

                      #11
                      Its cool.

                      Just sayin.

                      Comment

                      • AkumA
                        TENDERIZED
                        • May 2003
                        • 454

                        #12
                        hahaha, hoffmanbYkes (i love hoffman BIKES btw) got OwnenD1!!1

                        its a very good idea tho Lucker27.


                        ahh, going to the field with only 500 balls...i love college.

                        feedback

                        Comment

                        • Hexis
                          Green Mag Freak
                          • Sep 2001
                          • 2427

                          #13
                          It would need a threshold so that it didn't bounce. That would be pretty easy in software. Sample the position at 1kHz. Put some logice to assure a minimum move. You could also set the return threshold to be longer than the triggering threshold. It would also be trivial to put a time delay in as well.

                          Comment

                          • Lurker27
                            Registered User
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 287

                            #14
                            I can't (well, won't anyway) tell you specifics, but I'll say this: It's all outside the software. The solution I have uses breakbeam eyes, and could be fitted to any gun. The only problem will be tuning it so that a slowly moving objectgoing through the trigger is detected as well as fast trigger pulls.
                            Besdies the adjustable delay built into boards, I have a few ways to kill bounce lined up, mostly ones that ignore a certain amount of movement as a vibration. I think that a threshold of having to move .05mm or so is a good idea, in this case.

                            Comment

                            • hoffmanbykes
                              Registered User
                              • May 2004
                              • 3

                              #15
                              yeah it is pretty lame for copy and pasting and I'm sorry, I just wanted ppl to think I'm smart cause I"m really not. I get d's and f's in school so I just thought somebody would think I'm smart. Again I'm sorry Lurker27 for copy and pasting.

                              Comment

                              Working...