Simple E-Conversion?

[Mad_Man]

I was thinking about the possibility of a simple e-conversion for any non-emag. By simple i mean no-frills electro operation and no board control, so just semi.

The trigger could be attached to a 50g mircroswitch, regulated to the proper voltage then into an emag solenoid attached to an emag sear assembly, which is available from AGD for $40. Heres where i run into a grey area, as i am unaware of how the sear assembly connects to the solenoid. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

The obvious benefits to this would be a 50g trigger pull and with a set-screw trigger stop mod, a sweet trigger could be easily set up.

[dyeguy65]

im no expert...but from what i know its a magnetic plunger that just kinda sits in the solenoid and it "activates" it and pushes it up and down and what not. correct me if im wrong. sounds like an idea though.

[Mad_Man]

Yeah i think your right, AGD refers to it as a "solenoid plunger" and it pulls down the sear. The only problem i see is that a capacitor or something of some sort might be needed so that the trigger doesnt just activate the plunger, just send a pulse to it, enough to release the sear and re-set.

[personman]

You're going to need a board to control the pulses.
Also the E-mag solenoid is quite beefy, so you'll need an e-mag battery to power it. And once you have an e-mag battery, you'll need something to mount it on, like an E-mag frame. Well.. Then you'll have an emag.
If you want a 'cheaper' e-conversion, lots of people recently have been putting electric spyder frames on mags, you can look into that if you'd like.
Have fun.

[Lurker27]

battery life, etc etc. You need a board.... I'll give you an old one form an angel LED for $8 shipped.

[the electrician]

the problem that you will run into is control.

if your trying to just have a momentary switch that turns on the solenoid, there will be no control of lentgh of time at which it is activated. and mainly, there will be know control over the time between pulses to the solenoid. this means that switch bounce will cause it to shoot like crap. it will try and shoot way too fast.

the simplest thing I ever made to run a homemade e-mag was a small circuit board that used a simple reed relay and a few resistors and a capacitor. power goes through a resistor and fills a small capacitor on it's way to the coil of the relay. the other lead of the coil goes to the switch, then the switch back to the battery, of course. the resistor is large enough to not let enough current through to the coil to let it activate all the time when the switch is closed. but, the resistor is small enough to let the cap charge in enough time to send a pulse of current through the coil when the switch is activated. this energizes the coil for a short pulse of time, pulling the contacts together. the contacts act like a switch to switch the power on to the solenoid, or solenoid valve in my case. the size of the capacitor decides how long the pulse is, and the resistor and capacitor size combined, decide how long it take to charge up the capacitor.if the switch is held down, the cap does not charge until it is released again. this can be a simple form of timing. an extra resistor can be put in series between the cap and the coil to control the discharge of the cap. using small variable resistors for both can make it easier to control the timing. the first one can help control ROF, and help dampen switch bounce. the second can make sure the pulse is long enough so as not to do any damage to the bolt and sear. 30 msec is a good time to shoot for.

switch bounce can further be controlled by a small filter circuit, comprised of resistors. caps and a few diodes.

[Igotu]

put a ule trigger in and then u dont need a beefy noid

[Mad_Man]

So my new idea, with control in mind, is to have a switch on the trigger hooked up to the nicely sized morlock board ($120). Then i just modify an AGD solenoid mount to bolt into my intelliframe and screw in an e-mag solenoid ($50). I adjust it for proper length to be able to screw in the solenoid-sear trigger rod into the solenoid. Then add set screw trigger stops for optimal trigger pull. Now i dont think im going to have room for a 9v in the grip? But i could just tig weld up a tiny box and bolt it where my drop forward bolts on. Any insight on any of this?

[ojhspyro89]

I was working on somethingl ike this too but i was going to rig it into my tippmann. The only problem that occured to me is how much force these solenoids pull. The board would be pretty easy to make with a little research.

anybody know the force of an Emag solenoid???

[personman]

You guys dont really need to be using the E-mag solenoid. For a tippmann you would want to set up something like a spyder electronic frame since the sears trip similar. Take a look at one of those.
Also you are not going to power an emag solenoid off a 9 volt. The emag battery is 16 volts. If you want to try it, then have fun :)

[the electrician]

you can look up the solenoids force to plunger stroke ratio at solenoidcity.com

you're probably not going to get a good shot count using a 9 volt to run that giant e-mag solenoid. that thing sucks some serious juice. that's why they use that giant battery.

whatever you use, do yourself a favor and use a capacitor to help the battery deal with the large current draw.

[ojhspyro89]

http://www.electromechanicsonline.com/default.asp?cat=Tubular+Solenoids%2C+DC%2C+Pull

On here, how do i know how hard they pull??? It doesnt say anywhere that i can find about ratios either only the weight of the stuff. Id really like to know how much force these soleniods with pull.

[the electrician]

that page is where you look at the different solenoids.

why don't you try clicking on a particular solenoid, and look at the specs of it. look for the forc vs stroke graph.

[ojhspyro89]

http://www.electromechanicsonline.com/product.asp?pid=6

Where do u see the force vs stroke graph?????

[the electrician]

come on now.

look for info on the solenoid, don't just go to the page where you purchase them. search the website for information. start from the home page, and go into the tubular solenoids.

come to think of it, the bottom of the page you linked to has some info on force vs stroke also.

or here try this, I'll walk you through it. on the page you linked to, go down about half way and look for a yellow highlight with a big red "i" in a big red circle and it says"more information on this product" click on it!

when you get to that page it has a wire size /voltage chart. go to the bottom left corner and click on the green box that says "more data on this solenoid"

scroll down this page and you should see a graph that shows force vs. stroke.

how's that?