a pistol concept

[Rokudon]

*EDIT* ok first pic is old, and i've abandoned it, scroll down for current bolt + firing system designs, use the firts picture for the feed tube and gas chamber


alrite, i'm gettin bored + skool's gettin annoyin, i'm postin my complete idea... the dark cyan are gas lines, an altho they seem disconnected on the gun, the lines are continous, little hard to draw on a 2-d image, so they're color coded, eg. dark brown to dark brown, light yellow to light yellow, an dark blu to dark blu.
yellow lines r springs, and plz note, the one on the upper feed tube coils along the edge, so the balls can travel inside the tube.
ok first thing's first, the gun.... as i just explained, the feed tube spring... iz connected to a one way door (light blue pieces). allows balls in one way, wont let them bak out.
next, the bolt, coloured in dark grey and dark yellow. note, itz 2 piece. red thing prevents gas from leaking out too early when firing.
light blu piece iz the dump chamber thingy, itz spring operated, spring will make it compress inwards as gas escapes when firing or emptying. gas pressure forces the chamber back out to ready for next shot.
magenta thing iz a button to release the fill/fire (when trigger pressed, fill/fire pin goes up, blu thing prevents it from pushing bak down. when the magenta button iz pressed, by a lever it will push the blu thing bak into the on/off, allowing the pin to reset). wen the fill/fire (neon green thing) iz in the fill position, the gas line (dark cyan circle above fill/fire) can refill chamber. wen firing the fill/fire moves up (firing position), the gas goes into the bolt area and pushes against the internal bolt (ugly dark yellow thing). the internal bolt pushes the outer bolt (gray) forward when they make contact (the inner bolt will touch the outer bolt by the front surface on the inner bolt, can be seen where the bolt pieces r on top of each other). when the internal bolt maxes out on travel, it pushes the red piece forward and lets gas escape the holes that the red piece previously blocked. this fills the gap between bolt pieces, and the gas pushes the external bolt all the way forward and gas escapes from the large front hole, firing the ball.
the dark purple piece is a simple piece of metal, used to keep the bolt in the closed position and hit the fill/fire pin. when the trigger is pulled the piece will let go of the bolt and hit the pin, allowing the bolt to move, therefore to fire.
the light orange r the generator coils an magnetic rings for batteryless bolt return (i kno i waz shot down on that, i havent thot of another yet in itz place so i left it).
in lower left section of the gun, you see a large pink thing with a blue pressure plate (shot down on that too, but here's abetter example). dark green are stabilizer bars for the plate, yellow thing is the spring. when the chamber is being filled, the plate is pushed back, and chamber is allowed to fill. as shots are fired, plate moves forward, making sure all the gas is used and maintains pressure.this lets the chamber to fully empty, meaning no wasted gas in the gun.
dark cyan thing leading to front of the gun is the gas line leading to the outside world, and docking point for holster, explained in the next box after the gun.
i hope that clarified it...

[Rokudon]

here's the pistol... download to look for the minute details if u want

[Rokudon]

here's the holster, again dark cyan is gas line, dark magenta iz ball tube, red thing iz ball paddle, dark yellow circle iz sn area for gas to turn a turbine (dark blue) and rotate the paddles when reloading. ok, not drawn to scale, (like the pistol) but the tube inside the holster is supposed to contain enough room for 10. what happens is, when your pistol is empty or wateva, you take the pistol and place it in (proper orientation) the holster. push it in and gas wil flow into the gun from the upper gas outlet. this pressure difference draws more gas and turns the turbine. this then loads 10 balls (housed in the holster) into the feed tube. pull gun out, gun is fully recharged and reloaded. the paintball tube outside of the holster leads to a pack of paintballs (hardcase, stil wondering where to put it) where they line up redy to reload. when your done reloading, holster allows 10 mor eballs to fall in redy for next time you push gun in. gas line from bottom of holster would lead to a direct tank (if you feel like having a tank dangling form your leg) or to a tank on a remote line. o i forgot to mention, the gun's internal gas storage hoolds enough for about 15 shots, because it onli has 10 shots, extra 5 for weather changes (diff gas uses for cold temps). any questions? comments? plz reply to this.. i got VERY bored.. but dont want to waste my time on all those cr**py drawings.... thanks to whoever reads and/or replies

[Rokudon]

and.. the holster... feel free to dl and see puny details, the light blu iz the leg strap... or waist belt, whichever you ppl prefer... i thot this up bcuz i found that, major downfall of pistols iz the 12 gram, expensive, altho i assume pl would like a CA source without the bottle. also, makes using 2 guns fun, push, pull, then fire fire, while reloading/recharging other. makes like movies.... got somewat of the inspiration form tomb raider an lara croft's bakpak clip holder.. remember, these r onli crappy drawings of mine, use these onli to get a general idea of how itz gonna work... hm wonder if slarty's gonna reply first.... i gotta stop editting this post... o an gun is inserted form yellow side, as pointed out by my horrible darwing of words.. an plz dont point out that my main firing thingy look slike parts from automags, bcuz thats were i got the ideas, an tried to make them different, so excuse any similarities

[Enos Shenk]

Dude no offense but i cant understand a single thing you typed. Real english usually helps in getting technical points across.

[SlartyBartFast]

I get the idea. I've had similar ideas myself.

The only thing that I think would be impossible is the gas driven paddles. Very difficult to make completion of the gas fill for the marker equal 10 fully loaded balls.

To make it easier to design, I'd require the player to pull back the clip before inserting the marker in the holster and use a Halo type mechanism to load the balls.

But....

That setup would be VERY complex and VERY expensive. 12g CO2 cartridges and preloaded clips/magazines would be cheaper, less complex, a be little different overall.

Clips/Magazines would probably be faster to load.

[Rokudon]

lol slarty, you made second to reply... anyway, i'd think the reloading processw ould be quicker because instead of pushing in a clip and a 12gram every 20 shots or so, you'd do all that in one step, and instead of pushing in a magazine and pulling one out, you just jab it back into the holster. true, it might be abit expensive, but i really think that it would reload alot quicker. for the turbine, would it be posible to create a mechanical counter to stop it after 10 balls have loaded in? then after that the gas can pass through the turbine blades and still recharge the gun. although it most likely will be expensive, remember, it includes a holster, and can reload and recharge your gun as quickly as you can push the pistol into the holster. if using 2, it would be quick, one fires, one reloads even if you're just taking you time

[SlartyBartFast]

Have you played stock class before? When I started, I used to play exclusively with Splatmasters and often against really high tech guns. Pumps with CA! Some began to have autotrigger!

Nothing is easier or faster than than reloading a Splatmaster.
New 10rnd tube in opposite hand, chamber last ball, pull old tube, insert new.
Fire two tubes, load third, change 12g halfway through third tube. Change again before end of sixth tube.

Never without a shot while reloading, and a few seconds at most with a down marker while changing the 12g. A simple check valve would have been nice to keep the marker gassed for one shot.

Ahhh.. The days when the best game play was to make a PSSST noise and then jump out of the bunker to shoot the idiots running your way.

A holster would be neat. But, forget the turbine idea. Use a Halo or anyother electronic loader to do the loading. With your other ideas you were trying to use electronics where pneumatics should be used, and here your using pneumatics where electronics would be best.

The time it takes to change a 12g in a quickchanger is astronomically faster than what had to be done with a Splatmaster. So, I don't know who'd be willing to pay much for the gadget factor of a matched marker and holster.

[Rokudon]

lol forget my first post slarty? i've read an would love to play,but parents hate guns so i'm stuck here envying you ppl with ur own guns, so i'm stuck thinking up my own. wel if you say electronics would work best, the i wouldnt mind. altho i'd prefer full mech, as pointed out in many places (and comics) that they're water impervious. no worries about batteries either. only reason why i ever thot of this waz bcuz i kept thinkin, if i ever were to play, i'd love to carry a bakup pistol, but i alwayz hated the concept of the expensive 12 grams(in comparison i think...) and reloading the thing. eg. on field, you'd b fixing the primary so single handedly being able to reload and fire a marker would prevent you dropping and potentially losing something. btw, how long have you been playing slarty? that i kno of splatmasters r quite old.. an besides, if i do play, i plan on playing stock class, overall easier on the wallet (and if compatible with Qloaders, VERY small profile with a massive amount of balls for a pump. and if combined with a CA source...)

[Rokudon]

OK new bolt idea... same ball tube and same gas chamber (both labelled in the new diagram)as the old pistol idea, but i got a new idea for the bolt. using that same chamber in the back, we change the fire/fill pin (dark blue) so that when the gas enters the back chamber, the pressure from the incoming gas would not let the gun fire. when the chamber's filled, there would be equalized pressure between the gas line (light blue to the green part, the thinner light blue in the body connects to the light blue in the dark green part, i didnt feel like making the drawing any more messier) and the chamber (dark red thing at the back).
the fire/fill pin is pushed down when the chamber is refilling from pressure differences, and compresses the little spring (dark orange under the pin) and causes the sear to catch on the pin (sear is the light green). when the chamber is done filling, there would be no pressure against the pin, and when you pull the trigger, the sear would release the pin, pin shoots up (from the spring's force) and opens the chamber to vent the gas and shoot the ball (the dotted area in the middle of the sear means that that specific area is hollowed out so gas can pass through it). (again, hard to draw with 2-d, but there is a slot cut for the sear to reach the fire/fill pin, that's why its so long)
when the chamber is venting, springs (or magnets, whichever fits + works better) pull the chamber forward, ensuring all the gas is vented. also, the chamber's front has 2 connecting pins (the SLIGHTLY lighter blue) which push into the bolt when the chamber is fully empty. since there is a pressure difference again between the chamber and the gas line, the chamber fills again and pulls out, with the bolt. this pulls the bolt back to reload a new paintball, and at full extension the chamber's connecting pins pull out of the bolt and the bolt pushes forward (spring against the dark gray bolt and the dark green piece) ready to fire again.
the trigger does 2 things when pulled, cuts off the gas source (prevents the pin from pushing down in the middle of firing) and releases the fire/fill pin from the sear.
hm think i covered it all... comments? clarification on anything i posted? feel like flaming me? lol be my guest, i just need my ideas proven/disproven bcuz i'm bored. and, its a simpler design... reduces things that cna go wrong right? o and enos, if u feel like responding again, i have no technical background (primarily bcuz i'm not out of school yet..) and these are ideas. IDEAS ok? doesnt mean they'l work or even be possible.

[Rokudon]

aaaand... the new bolt in the gun. well, its not exactly a bolt.. its the entire firing system... i just couldnt think of anythign else to call it

[SlartyBartFast]

You've lost me on the details, but the function seems to be the same as the AIR valve.

There was a pistol being used by paintball fields in Europe that were charged with high pressure air and were good for a couple dozen shots.

Seems that they are very similar to what you are trying to design.

But, an AGD Sydarm with an air chamber capable of high pressure and a quick fill system would seem to be exactly what you're proposing.

[Rokudon]

hm... just need to ask(yes itz noobish) watz the air valve? an i probably did lose u in all that, itz a closed bolt design. when the chamber is empty, the 2 light blue pieces stick into the bolt and grab on. when the chamber (dark red) refills, it pulls the bolt back, lets a ball drop in. the chamber fills further than the bolt's maximum movement and the 2 blue pieces get pulled out of the bolt, and that liiitle spring on the light gray piece pushes the bolt forward. THEN the marker fires.
i've gone away from the blow forward, i waz havin trouble thinking of how to make a return system for the bolt


*EDIT* i've seen an automag valve, not sure if its an AIR valve (unless the air valve is the stock valve found in an automag.....) but the fill stage looks somewhat similar, main difference in my design is that the gas is forced in one direction, towards the dump chamber, and also, the pin is hollowed near the bottom. the hollowed out portion is for the system when firing, the gas can go through the bolt. unlike the automag valve i saw, which is placed behind the dump chamber. my valve is in front of it, blocking gasflow to the bolt and blocking gas to the chamber when its firing. ( i went for simplicity, the middle channel in the green section is used for gas entering and escaping, and like in the old design, the dump chamber varies in size depending on how much pressure and gas is in it)

[Rokudon]

whee more ideas!! not gonna post a new pic, but what if i change the sear and spring to a 4way valve? 1 input from the gas supply, 1 output to fire/fill pin, one input form trigger venting(to conserve gas, remember, its limited to a 12gram or less worth of gas), and one output to the chamber. trigger released, gas input, trigger vent input, and fill chamber are open.
when firing, gas input and pin are open, other 2 are closed. the trigger vent line has a 1way valve, prevents repressurization(sp? or even a word?) but allows it to vent so the pin can drop down and let the chamber refill.
if its hard to imagine, picture a cylinder with 3 lines on one side, 1 on the other. first 2 (left to right) are for the fire/fill pin, the 3rd line to the dump chamber.
also, a related question, i've seen that all 3ways, 4ways need an lpr. is it possible for one to operate with unregulated 800-900psi from a 12gram? and if an LPR is needed.... how much will gas efficiency suffer by, or will it at all?
if its possible, it'l shorten the overall gun (bolt and such can be moved back) and front loading CO2, which seems to be most popular next to vertical(who's ever seen a vertical on a HOLSTERABLE pistol?) in my poll in "paintball talk".

[Rokudon]

ok maybe i will post a pic... (WOW why are they so big??)as stated in previous post, the small line on bottom of the 4way is from gas supply, line on top left is to the dump chamber, middle top is firing pin vent line (there's a one way gate, prevents gas from going back into there), top right is firing pin pressure line.
red thing is the 4way thingy, green is trigger