Mag with Freestyle operation

[Mad_Man]

The ICD freestyle looks to operate quite a bit
like an automag. I was thinking that it would not
be too dificult, besides a little machining, to
make a mag operate like the freestyle.

The freestyle has LP air hold back the bolt instead
of a spring. When it fires, a small solenoid valve
just cuts the LP airflow from hold the bolt and it
fires forward. Instead of having the bolt spring
back when theres no pressure on it like a mag, the
freestyle has the LP air blow the bolt back.

It seems to me like it wouldnt be out of the question
to modify the bolt and body to work like a freestyle.
The ULE body has to have the slot where the sear sticks
in be filled. After that, the bolt need to be put on a
lathe, and a slot for an oring on the back of the bolt
(the part usually held by the sear). After that, a
special mill bit will need to be attached to put an
oring groove in the body right before the feedneck hole.
A hole and a hose barb connected to a small electric
solenoid valve, an LPR, morlock board,and battery
would be the only things needed to finish it i would
think.

I did some calculations and the part of the bolt that
the sear would usually hold onto has enough surface
area so that at 100psi of LP air, it can hold back
the 850psi pressing on the bolt in the powertube.

So what do u think?

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[chaos lichen]

Sounds like a good idea; you could make a e-frame for the mag and sell it for $$$ just make a frame that would go with that bolt. I would buy it.

[scpaintballer01]

nice. id buy also+

[ScatterPlot]

It's a cool idea and all, I'll give you that, but the idea has been pretty much run over to death before. It was discussed of just using a pneumatic cylinder to reset the bolt instead of integrating it like you have. It was pretty much decided that it would not help the mag's operation really at all. Cool, definately. Usefulness I dunno. Prolly no more speed than the sear trippers that we have already, 'specially with the ULE now. Here's a link:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120465&highlight=bolt+spring+idea

As you can see most of the inefficiency comes from crummy fittings around key parts in the whole assembly. But whatever, it is a cool idea.

[the electrician]

working on it now. showing some good results in the preliminary testing. should be alot more efficient.

the link scatterplot gave you will show you some of the results I've had.

[Mad_Man]

My friend can make parts in his shop for free and it would be easier to put a collar in the body before the feedneck instead of milling an oring slot deep in the body before the feedneck hole. Ive noticed that the bolt travels almost 1/2" beyond the feeneck towards the barrel. What is the minimum distance the bolt needs to travel beyond the feedneck to insure that there is minimal blow-back?

[the electrician]

well, I'm not planning on milling the ULE body, or putting an o-rnig groove in it, or "filling in" the slot either.

I'm just treating it like a matrix design in a way. only it will just be a single acting cylinder design.

there's not 800+ psi pressing on the bolt. it's actually 400 psi, and about 470 psi with the lvl 10 bolt.

you're forgetting about the on/off.

[Mad_Man]

I dont plan on modifying the body either. After taking measurements, I am having a part milled. It is a thin sleeve that goes from the front of the valve, to the body where is starts to get smaller. Right at the end, there is a collar with an oring that encircles the the bolt. The back of the bolt has an oring milled into it which seals it from behind. It is essentially a single acting ram.

I realize that there is not a full 800psi, or even 400psi on the actual part of the bolt. I did calulations when i first thought of this, to see if 100psi could hold back even 400. The section of the bolt pushed on is very small and i think it was around 1/10 sq. in., so thats around 40 pounds on the bolt i believe. The ~100psi of LPR air is enough to hold this as the bolt rim where it pushes is larger.

I dont plan on using the on/off necessarily, unless I can find an appropriate for it. I realize it would be inneficient, but I play tournament, and a 68/4500 would be enough for 2 games even being inneficient. How innefficient is the freestyle as i understand it has no closed dump chamber either?

Electrician::
Do you have a link to the minivalve that you used in your pneumatic e-mag conversion. That seems like a good candidate to fit well in my intelliframe. Thanks

[Magaman]

Will the Lvl 10 work???

Do you think the Lvl 10 will work properly with the pneumatics? I'm just wondering if the pneumatics will work against the Lvl 10 when trying to not chop...

[Mad_Man]

Do you think the Lvl 10 will work properly with the pneumatics? I'm just wondering if the pneumatics will work against the Lvl 10 when trying to not chop...

I would assume it would fit as it appears to be the same size as a lvl 7, but the back looks difficult to mill for an oring. I dont know much about the lvl 10, but it may be limited to a lower rate of fire since it would put out less force in the beginning to push the lp air out of the "chamber". Whether or not that is true or significant at all I do not know, this is just speculation.

I think that I will use a Quick Exhaust Valve (QEV) where the LP air goes into the bolt chamber, as i would think this would improve speed.

[the electrician]

that little valve I used in my electro-mag does not have the flow capabilities needed to do the job.

you'll want something with a Cv of atleast .7

the pressure that is created by the air behind the bolt is directly proportional to the surface area of the bolt piston it acts upon. the bolt piston is .25" in diameter. that gives it a force factor of .05. take this times the input of 400 psi. that gives you 20 lbs.

I suggest trying to figure out how to reduce that. the force you need to generate, the larger the cyl;inder bore you need, the more air it consumes, the bigger the solenoid valve you need,and possibly the more time it takes to fill it.

the lvl 10 is different. different initial piston size, and different pressure.
I can't say I would recommend using the lvl 10 in this type of mod. it would overcomplicate the design for no reason.