Why not make a lower pressure mag?

[hipster]

hey yo, all my mag'S needs 700 to run if have one that runs off 400 its a miricle

[the electrician]

there's a difference between operating psi and what you need to feed it from the tank to avoid drop off.

several people are saying things here that are have truths , or just plain not true.

okay first off, the standard mags operating psi is about 400 psi
the lvl10 runs at about 470( little more with stiffer spring)

the RT/X valve does not recharge quickly because it is "high pressure" that has nothing to do with it. it's the regulator and valve design. the classic valve runs at the same operating psi as the rt but it really only can do 16 bps without drop-off.think about it.
the way the RT/X works, as soon as the air is released from the dump chamber to fire the ball,the reg pin opens the reg back up. so the reg is open already when youlet go of the trigger. so air at tank pressure, is ready to fill the dump chamber as soon as the on/off pin opens.

in the classic, the reg closes when the operating pressure is reached in the dump chamber, and it doesn't open back up until AFTER you let go of the trigger and the on/off pin goes down. it also moves at a slower rate being that it only has air on top of it at operating pressure at the time. therefore a slower recharge rate.

Now, you have to give the gun 700+ from the tank, because it's all about pressure differential. the higher the operating pressure, the higher the input pressure you need to give the gun from the tank.

the "magic box" was the worst idea. basically just making the recharge rate worse to say that it's "lower pressure"

the mag uses to much air per shot. that's the problem. it wastes air.

the solution is to make the gun more efficient, and leave the chamber the same size. then the pressure can be lowered and the recharge rate will actually be a little better.

but automags do not need to be made more efficient or "low pressure" to be reliable. they are one of the most reliable gun ever made. you can find an old one that's been thrown in a closet for a few years, replace the o-rings and oil it and it'll fire right up.

[Alpha]

Break in the oring, then BAM. No more leaks. I don't have any leaks with a broken in oring and I live in New England, craziest weather in the US. Mags don't leak all the time, unless someone doesn't know what they're doing.

The lower your pressure is, the bigger the space it needs to move something. Look at Dye Matrixes, specifically the DM3. 2 of my buddies shoot these and they're supposedly "more efficient" because they're lower pressure BUT, they get about 1000 shots. So do I! Off a 68/45 too.

If you want more shots per tank, sell your 70/3000, and save up the 119MSRP for the Tippmann LP System and buy a tank in 4500PSI. Someone already tried to make a LP mag, it was smart parts, and they have no idea what they're doing.

Now if you want a REALLY LP gun that works, buy AKA. Vikings and Excals are unbelievably air efficient.

Sean

I really like this guy.

[SlartyBartFast]

It would be so nice, if that when this dead horse of an idea was resurrected, the person starting the thread COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW AND CONSTRUCTIVE.

Honestly. What more can be said that hasn't been said a million times before?

Use search "low pressure mag", then if you don't want to revive one of the millions of existing threads, start a new thread but resume what you've read and ask a new intelligent question or present an intelligent idea.

[p8ntball365]

I really like this guy.

Hey I saw him first!!!

[Automaggot68]

FYI A-5's don't chop either so I'm thinking it's worth comparing the 2. I can fire crap like Predator paint, though an A-5 with a STOCK mis-matched barrel all day and not chop. Give or take some barrel chops though.. stock sucks

Hey.
Moron.
There's a difference between a CHOP, and a barrel break.
The Ball chopping in the break has nothing to do with your barrel.

[ottomobile]

The Electrician is right. Thats exactly how a mag works. Efficiency is variable. What are your parameters? If you are looking at size, number of moving parts, consistensy or reliablility you can't beat it. Now that ULE has come out you can't beat it on weight either.
Its the opportunity cost of the marker. Super gas efficient markers are larger and more parts to break than a mag. Personally I don't see what the big deal is. Gas is the cheapest part of paintball and is free at the tourneyments anyway. If you are such a stickler about gas, go back to CO2. I get about 2200 shots out my 20oz tank.

Also I don't understand how an A5 is being compared to a Mag. About the only thing similar is that they shoot paint! And chopping ball has nothing to do with efficency. Its dependant on timing and your loading system.

[Commissar_Loki]

I'm curious what a mag does actually run at. Tom said about 400 PSI, but it may be lower. There is a very simple way to find out... someone with a Smart parts magic box takes off the dumb extender piece and installs a guage. That would at the very least tell us a bit more than rough numbers. Just a thought, this may make people be quiet about low pressure.


-Butch

[SlartyBartFast]

Just a thought, this may make people be quiet about low pressure.

No it won't

People don't even understand what LP means.

TK graphed it and all markers regardless of operating, cocking, or chamber pressure exert the same pressures on the PB.

Whether HP or LP for any application is "efficient" or appropriate has more to do with component sizing and design.

[Commissar_Loki]

Damn... I really wanted people to shut up about it. I'm curious what the dumpchamber PSI is though. Not for arguement sake but just curiosity.


-Butch

[nicad]

I'm curious what a mag does actually run at. Tom said about 400 PSI, but it may be lower....
-Butch

level 7 was to run at 375-400psi (hear-say from reliable people)
levl 10 runs around 600psi. (my own testing- known for a fact. )

out!

[Commissar_Loki]

Thanks Nicad, curiosty has been fixed


-Butch

[Automaggot68]

That's strange. I get 4-6 pods off a 68/3000 (68/45 with 3000 fill)

Same.

I've got a 5/5 Pack and a 68/45 that they only fill to 30o0psi, and I Still walk off the field pounds lighter.
All Day air is your friend.

[the electrician]

hey Nicad,

I did some tests on my mag with level 10 and it was running at 470 psi.
that is with the standard spring.

what spring were you using when you recorded the 600 psi operating pressure?

[nicad]

Good point, sorry I forogt to include that. 600 psi was recorded on the long spring and a "freak" and/or "stepped" style barrel (5 to 6" effective barrel length)
With the short spring I was getting ball chops.. bolt still hits kind of hard at 300fps.

I know longer effictive and unported barrels will get better shots as well, but I have not tested.