High efficiency mod

[undescriptive]

I know I read somewhere about the high efficiency mod that Tom was doing to some mags...

reducing the dump chamber size, but increasing the pressure....

does anyone have any idea if it would possible to make on of these @ home and what it would entail?

I would assume it would be something to put in the dump chamber to make it smaller (a spring to reduce the volume??) and a different spring on the regulator pin to allow it to function @ a higher pressure and possibly a new spring pack...

anything else I have missed?

I mean if I could get another 300+ shots out of a tank, but still have 1000+ psi in the tank I wouldn't care!

more shots is more shots!

[Duck Hunt]

Tom didn't say it was a mod to get more shots... The Mag IS efficient at higher pressures. Do a search for Zak Vetters RT mag hooked up to a SCUBA tank, I think he put 2000 something PSI into the valve. Cycled like CRAZY.

http://zakvetter.com/Videos/Classic%20RT%20Scuba%20Run.mov

Hey there ya go!

People need to stop confusing "consistancy/efficiency" with "more shots"...

Sean

[Codekevin0403]

holy freakin crap

i wish i could do that

[undescriptive]

I know about the cycling faster, but I'm sure I read somewhere on here about INCREASING Efficiency by INCREASING the dump valve pressure....

I'll see if I can find it...

here is the thread that hints at it...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135892&highlight=efficiency

I would REALLY like to try this, if it means I can get an extra load of shots out of my tank, I don't CARE if it has a lot of residual air in the tank!

[undescriptive]

no more insight into this?

anyone? coils of wire into the dump chamber???
help?

The Electrician if you are reading... I'm sure you said something about this somewhere!

[Duck Hunt]

undescriptive, that thread had nothing to do with getting more shots out of your tank.

Sean

[undescriptive]

If the air chambers were smaller then we would have to increase the pressure entering the dump chamber.

So this has its pro and con. We would get better efficiency. However, we wouldn't be able to shot as low into the tank as we currently do.

BTW, I verified the above with Tom at an AO day.

Sorry to be an ***, but that thread is exactly what I'm talking about!

I don't care about usable air, providing I can get more shots.
at the fill station, if you don't have to completely bulk from 500PSI it also keeps my Divetanks working for longer!

[nicad]

Tom didn't say it was a mod to get more shots... The Mag IS efficient at higher pressures. Do a search for Zak Vetters RT mag hooked up to a SCUBA tank, I think he put 2000 something PSI into the valve. Cycled like CRAZY.
...
People need to stop confusing "consistancy/efficiency" with "more shots"...
Sean

I believe you are confusing input pressure with chamber pressure.
lvl10 mags run ~580-600psi. (lvl7's ran around 350-400psi).
If you do not change the chamber size, then a higher chamber pressure will increase your velocity and DECREASE your efficiency.
A higher input pressure will give a harder push back ("RT") on the trigger and a faster recharge... that is all.

out!

[Duck Hunt]

AIR EFFICIENCY - MORE SHOTS PER TANK; SHOOTING DEEPER INTO YOUR TANK

EFFICIENCY - SMOOTHER AND ALL AROUND FASTER MECHANICAL OPERATION

Zak Vetter put so much pressure into his mag, making it cycle incredible fast, because mags get MORE efficient the more pressure you put into them, and less AIR EFFICIENT.

VIKINGS ARE ONE OF THE MOST AIR EFFICIENT PAINTGUNS, THEY ARE HUGE COMPARED TO MAGS.

Making the mag chamber smaller would increase EFFICIENCY and lessen AIR EFFICIENCY, thus producing a smaller more compact valve, correct?

I am operating under the assumption that the only way to get more shots from your tank is to run at lower pressures.

If I remember correctly Tom said something along the lines of "I wish I could make you guys a valve that could take 4500 PSI directly..."

I am under the impression he was talking about making a valve that would be mechanically efficient.

The only way I see a lower pressure mag is to hollow out the back regulator on the valve, and get a set of softer bolt springs, but good luck with that.

Is there somethign I'm missing here guys?

nicad, how well did that powertube only mag valve work???

Sean

[hitech]

What makes the 'mag valve(s) less efficient than they should be is that they continue to vent air from the dump chamber after the ball is gone from the barrel. Level 10 bolts use a higher pressure and therefore vent at higher pressure when the ball leaves the barrel. However, level 10 bolts reseal the dump chamber with a far amount of air (pressure) still left preserving it for use with the next shot.

Want to make the 'mag more efficient? Try a longer (length measured to the first step or porting) effective length barrel. This should allow more of the air to be used, thus allowing you to achieve a higher velocity with a lower pressure in the dump chamber.

Let me know if it worked, and where you found the barrel.

[nicad]

Ran some tests a while back on an X-valve with lvl10, longest bolt spring, and shooting ~300fps at 600 psi champer pressure.

pull-and-hold the trigger resulted in almost exactly 200psi remaining in the chamber after a shot. Recall the mag chamber size is 0.55ci.
(yes I drilled a port in the side of the valve chamber, yes it was a liquid-filled gauge, yes i made sure it didnt add volume to the chamber size).

out!