Mag + Freestyle

[Mellow Yellow]

As far as I know, Pneumags are just pneumatically sear tripped by a piston. Right? I am sure many of you know that the Freestyle's design is blowforward, incorporating a searless, completely pneumatic system. My idea is pretty much a Mag turned Freestyle.

Excuse the choppy animation:

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/7166/freestylemag9hm.gif

Sure, I never put a LPR and the solenoid is a bit too small in the animation, but you get the point.

It really wouldn't be too hard, in my eyes. Custom tray and body that allows a solenoid mount and input channel and, of course, removing the sear entrance. Also, an oring around the bolt and I would remove the sear catch indent on the bolt.

I guess my question is: Has this been done?

[Stealth Fighter]

As far as I know, Pneumags are just pneumatically sear tripped by a piston. Right? I am sure many of you know that the Freestyle's design is blowforward, incorporating a searless, completely pneumatic system. My idea is pretty much a Mag turned Freestyle.

Excuse the choppy animation:

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/7166/freestylemag9hm.gif

Sure, I never put a LPR and the solenoid is a bit too small in the animation, but you get the point.

It really wouldn't be too hard, in my eyes. Custom tray and body that allows a solenoid mount and input channel and, of course, removing the sear entrance. Also, an oring around the bolt and I would remove the sear catch indent on the bolt.

I guess my question is: Has this been done?

Sorry I had to butcher your pic in paint, but you would probably want the air coming in on this side, because the spring would force the bolt back, you would also need a extremely air tight o-ring around the bolt that would probably wear down quickly, you would also need one around the valve. It would be possible, but probably be a pain and require constant maintenence of those o-ring, cause if the air finds a way out, that bolt isn't going anywhere.

[Mellow Yellow]

Nope. Definitely in the front. Just like on the Freestyle, the high pressure air pushes the bolt forward. The solenoid pushes it back. The solenoid's low pressure air pretty much just replaces the spring.

[Stealth Fighter]

Gotcha, sorry, I had myself bass ackwards. Yeah it would be possible, but you would need a very wear resistent o-ring where I have the yellow arrow pointed, because that bolt will be doing a lot of rubbing against it and you won't want to allow any air out otherwise the bolt aint moving.

[3pac]

Yellow is right, the air does need to be infront of the bolt so it pushes it back. Think about the spring concept in the Mag, and then apply it using air. Force to push the bolt back so that it seals shut. The only question I would have is that would it work the same as the Freestyle, I.E. Air to the LPR to activate the solenoid and then the solenoid would take care of everything from there. At the same time, the efficiency question comes into play. I own a Freestyle as well as a Mag and the freestyle is far less efficient than the Mag. Though I do have the HR-1 kit insatlled on the freestyle to help out with efficiency, you'll need a large surface area for the air coming from the valve to push the bolt forward with minimal force and usage. On top of that there may be wasted air as the bolt makes its travel through its cycle, but if a level 10 were to be used, it would be necessary. Then bringing another point, if we were to get rid of the spring, would the level 10 still work the same under the conditions that air will be forced into different areas where it once wasn't? Just some thoughts, but I do look forward to seeing how this project will turn out.

[Mellow Yellow]

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/freestyle.gif

Just for a reference.

And yeah, you would need a seal there aswell. But the design is proven in Freestyles.

[the electrician]

well, it's being done, in between raising two little ones and remodeling the house.

here's a thread about it from way back: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ht=bolt+spring

I'll get some pics up fairly soon of what I've got so far.

[Mellow Yellow]

well, it's being done, in between raising two little ones and remodeling the house.

here's a thread about it from way back: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ht=bolt+spring

I'll get some pics up fairly soon of what I've got so far.

Nice. I am excited to see the pictures.

[FinchMan]

it seems to me that you're just adding a mag regulator to the back of the freestyle. you don't even need the old mag's on/off assembly.

[Mellow Yellow]

it seems to me that you're just adding a mag regulator to the back of the freestyle. you don't even need the old mag's on/off assembly.

Not really. Why don't we look at it the other way? All I am doing is adding a Freestyle solenoid, wiring harness, and board to a slightly modded Mag.

[the electrician]

actuually, I will probably be changing the back of the valve(reg), as well as the front. the mag reg doesn't like the lower pressures.

[Mellow Yellow]

The front? As in the bolt?

[ThePixelGuru]

Mellow Yellow, don't forget you've got to vent that air somewhere - a QEV would probably be best. Also, a lubed o-ring around the bolt and one behind the breach to seal it off would work, and you probably wouldn't need that high of a pressure to get it to work.

I don't think there's a need for this, however... Think about it. The only air that's used to overcome the spring force is the same air that fires the ball. You're just adding complication and ineffeciency with this. Unless there's a real advantage I'm missing or you're just doing it for the hell of it, I wouldn't bother.

[Mellow Yellow]

Well, it would be capable of cycling faster(though not really needed). I guess I will do it for the hell of it. It comes from the same reason why others buy $1k markers when you can get a mid-end electropneumatic marker(Ion, Bushmaster, Promaster, etc.) to be just as good with few upgrades and comes stock with the speed you need. And I really do not think there will be a huge efficieny problem.

[the electrician]

quite the opposite. it uses less air by eliminating the spring, and a few leaky places.
and alot less air compared to using a level 10. although eyes must be added. but that doesn't matter because it already electronic. this is not something you would want to bother with if you weren't going to make it electronic.

you see in stock form, the springs force becomes strongest opposing the forward bolt movement right when the bolt is all the way forward and starts to release air to fire the ball. as soon as the pressure drops enough in the chamber, the spring pushes the bolt back. the bolt never really comes out of the power tube tip comepletely, just right to the edge. it's because of the spring. this makes for a small air discharge area. high pressure is needed to shove enough air in the right amount of time to fire the ball. some air gets wasted.

basically what I've done is preliminary tests using a modifed mag with no bolt spring and a seal added to the power tube tip and the bolt tip, and a two stage bolt that goes from .250"(stock) to start for holding to .285" to gain back bolt speed and to help with better air discharge at the end.I needed to gain back bolt speed because it didn't take near the pressure in the firing chamber as it did before. it only needed 280psi to fire the ball @ 280fps(average) instead of 400 psi for the lvl7 bolt and 470psi minimum for the lvl10.

the results were positive, so I proceeded to make a new bolt, a bolt cylinder, and a new power tube tip. it took alot of measuring, guessing and head scratching, then some more measuring and studying to come up with the right stuff. so far so good. I've really gained a huge amount of respect for the original automag design, and I've learned quite a bit along the way.

not having the proper circuit board design has made it hard to test overall max bps with the current test design. overlapping events need to occur to get the timing right . I've thought about using an eblade circuit board, but I'm having a hard time finding one for the right price. but it won't be necessary for the final design, I just need it for design info right now.

like I said, all have some pics and some more info to post soon.