water flow

[omegaredghost]

ok need your help fellow AOers this is not a paintmarker persay. but a paintthrower/flamethrower for scenario games. i need some input on how to shoot a straighter stream of paint. i do not know that much about water flow/physics. and looking to achieve a range of about 80 foot. im thinking that most of my problem is in the tip not sure what shape or size to go with. my current set up is a fire extinquisher with the valve removed running threw a 1inch I.D. hose to a 3/4 inch ballcock valve to a 3/4 to 1/4 reducer from there out a 6 inch long 1/4 I.D. pipe. with this set up im getting about 50 foot of range just not enough i do not think the pressure is an issue as it has about 150 p.s.i.(powerd by co2) and it is not flowing it is going threw a 1" line . i think it is my poor tip redneck engineering your help is much appreciated thank you for looking

[Glickman]

heres a quick idea to jog your creative side:



the red "hammer" just has constant pressure on the paint, which you release via the on/off

[TarsTarkas]

pressure

It's called hydraulics, Bubba, and it's REAL dependent on pressure! Your idea of necking down your pipes is on the mark as far as your stream goes, but for more distance, you're going to have to go down to about a 3/16 id pipe, then up your pressure to 500 psi or more!Talk to your local firemen. Their fire hoses average 300-500 psi through a three inch hose to get a 50ft stream!

[hgp3fat]

For the tip you should incorporate a curved surface to utilize the coanda effect.

Getting a nice 30 or 45 degree arc should increase distance.

(Think finger over the end of a water hose.)

[hgp3fat]

I found a picture of one (sorry for the thread revival, but this is cool.)

[luke]

[omegaredghost]

youre on the right track luke thats what ive got right now it is a heck of a water gun. the most i can get out of it is 50 ft. im going to try to thicken up the mix so that it might shoot better. i would like to know what that stuff is that they have in neckwaps . the one you put in water and it soaks it up gets all puffy keeps you cool. seen them alot at my work place but no one knows whats in them. also is any one still working on the ionmag? just wondering

[Pneumagger]

to get the water to go a respectable distance, you will need:
1) Velocity at the nozzle
2) laminar flow from the nozzle tip

To account/design for velocity coming from the tip, you will need to pick proper input pressures/diameters and an appropriate exit diameter. For this, use a simple steady incompressible flow analysis like an adaptation bernoulli theorem. For water or similar viscous materials you can probably neglect head losses through the pipes if the design isn't crazy. For paint though, you may want to take a look at the head losses before tossing them out.

As far as a smooth flow that will keep the stream of water together after it exits (AKA laminar flow) try using several small tubes encased by the larger exit tube. For Example - Kind of like nozzle made of a 1+ foot section of 3/4" pvc pipe with straws (or coffee stirrers) jammed into it or something of the like. This will form several turbulent flows in the same direction that will come together to make a fairly laminar homogeneous flow. Hundres and hundreds of straws is what we do to produce smooth 100+ mph air flows in a wind tunnel. You will also see this on a lot of drinking fountains - if you look down into the tube yo uwill se it's divided into 3 to 6 smaller inner tubes.

Hit me up on aim if you need some help...depending on you tech bacround you may like WTF or you may have already tried this. Just thought I'd throw this out there. :)

[personman]

youre on the right track luke thats what ive got right now it is a heck of a water gun. the most i can get out of it is 50 ft. im going to try to thicken up the mix so that it might shoot better. i would like to know what that stuff is that they have in neckwaps . the one you put in water and it soaks it up gets all puffy keeps you cool. seen them alot at my work place but no one knows whats in them. also is any one still working on the ionmag? just wondering

Its probably similar to sodium polyacrylate. I dont think thats exactly what they use but it has similar properties and its used in baby diapers and hydroponics etc..

But if you just want gel, polyacrylate is friggin amazing. Just a gram of that stuff will soak up like half a lieter of water into a gel.

[omegaredghost]

wow both of those post are very good info . that was the crystle stuff that i was looking for just didnt know the name so thank you. and puenmag i did follow you had to read it twice but i got you i think you might very well have something there i will have atleast a direction to go in. im not near as smart as you by the sound of things but im a quick learner and will take the help i can get . since my last post i have changed things a little i now have a tank with a threee inch throat on it and am useing a two inch I.D. hose going to a 1 1/2 ballcock valve from there im not sure. but it seems to me by opening it up like that my capabilty of flow is much higher as i was told that double my I.D. quadruple my flow. i would like to keep i touch with you as i go along if thats is cool. might just keep posting here .

[Pneumagger]

if you quadruple your flow you'll go through paint faster and need 4 times the pressure to propel the water as far.

With a 2 inch diameter try stuffing straws in the nozzle until it looks honeycombish...that should help with the smoothness of the release.

[ttink]

I found a picture of one (sorry for the thread revival, but this is cool.)

That is really cool!

[omegaredghost]

well see also the purpose of having such a big opening was to act like a big pistion to increas my velocity without having to raise my psi any higher. and i intended to put a smaller tip on so as to not wast so much paint. the only down side to a small tip is that the spray atomize at about 30 ft this is the reason im wanting a thick fill so it dose not want to fall apart with the small tip

[Pneumagger]

linearizing the flow with several smaller tubes internally is how you overcome that problem. That is how fancy fountains get water to stay together all synchronous like.

If don king hasn't used the word linearizing, I think I may be the first

[y0da900]

well see also the purpose of having such a big opening was to act like a big pistion to increas my velocity without having to raise my psi any higher. and i intended to put a smaller tip on so as to not wast so much paint. the only down side to a small tip is that the spray atomize at about 30 ft this is the reason im wanting a thick fill so it dose not want to fall apart with the small tip

If you want to jack up your velocity without raising your pressure, then you should drop the size of the tube, not raise it. Try using the multiple smaller tubes as mentioned, not just to reduce turbulence, but you will turn one slower stream into a group of faster streams. Try to reduce as many transitions as you can, and if possible, use a tapered reducer instead of a flat transition piece