Wicked Air Sportz: Turbo Rev

[Koosh]

You guys seen the interview Jim Drew did with http://www.paintballreality.com/ ? I would reccomend reading it, if you haven't, here it is cut and pasted for your pleasure!

PBREALITY: Can you explain to us a little but about the

TurboRev and how it works?

JIM DREW: My definition of how it works is always disputed. There are some that

feel this technology is not possible. The results we have stated, as well as independant sources such as WARPIG, clearly show that the technology works. So those that don't have an open mind to technology, please skip this description.



The TurboRev uses a computer chip (more powerful than what we used to land our astronauts on the moon). This chip is programmed with routines that 'learn' patterns in the feeding and alter the motor speed and torque to achieve the best feed rate, and all in real time. By deliberately attempting to synchronize the "smacking" of the balls above

the stack in the feed tube with the cycling of the bolt, you can accelerate the balls into the breach. It is a similar concept to the desktop conversation pieces that have metal balls

suspended from strings. You pull back the first ball and release it, upon contact with the line of balls, the last ball rockets away from the rest, with the middle balls not disturbed. Its a simple idea, but the implementation is quite a feat. It took about 3 months of daily work to get the software to work properly. 3 months to write 500 bytes of code.



There is more, but I think this is the only part that pertains to this discussion...

[Jeb_Hoge]

You know what I'm waiting for, though? BLUETOOTH. "Real wireless intellifeed using Bluetooth technology!"

[pete-is-god17]

im all for you taking the this to the source and stickin it to em

rock on all u smart dudes, rock on

[WickedAirSportz]

A little challenge...

I'll tell you what, since the days of agitated hoppers are numbered, and Wicked Air Sportz will be releasing our own force feed hopper in the future, I would be happy to openly discuss the technology that makes the TurboRev the fastest feeding device for the Revolution.

As Bill Mills pointed out, he conducted his tests with a 1st generation TurboRev with the stock 4 blade impeller. After Bill's tests, I did change the software a little bit to help in those situations where there are fewer balls in the hopper to start with.

Now, if people would like an informative discussion about this technology, I am open to it. The technology is quite possible, and it works - I don't think Bill got a big check to lie on the Warpig results.

Some of the posts here are dead on the money about how it works, and others are so far off in left field. It seems that most of the people posting are in their youth, and are probably not very experienced with assembly language programming, or even the basic tricks you can do with the PIC micros. If you think you need multiplication or division instructions, you are thinking too high level. There are no such requirements in the TurboRev software, although lookup table pointers are certainly built in realtime (even with the limited RAM).

The concept of there never being a "gap" between two balls is wrong. Out of months worth of testing, I have only seen a few times where two balls were actually touching together (no space between) right as they passed the dead center portion of the infrared beam. Remember, the beam is modulated at a particular pattern to eliminate reflections from the balls false triggering the receiver, and to eliminate problems with ambient light.

Basically, what I would like from this discussion, at the end of course, is a public apology. When we are done, the information that I am going to give would allow others to produce a competing product. As I stated, we are looking toward the future with our new hopper (which will likely be as doubted as everything that I have ever worked on in the past). You have to ask yourself one question, if nothing else - why does the TurboRev feed faster than any other aggitated hopper in existance?

Let me know if we can have a rational convesation here.


Perhaps when this discussion is closed, we can move on to the Equalizer doubts.

[Butterfingers]

We are not doubting the claim that your product works. Your products usually do. Not once did we say your products DIDNT work.

However, we find it misleading that you must hype up products to make it look better than it really is.

Most of your products are doubted because you are making outrageous claims. Yes they work but not the way you describe it.

State of the art microcontroller?

Common its a $4 microcontroller. You're making it sound like this thing has the cray supercomputer in it.

I say if you dont wan't people do doubt your products don't make bogus claims, all we want to see is performance.

Look at the halo... similarily according to your standard the halo uses "space age electronics more powerful than the computer used to put the astronauts on the moon" also.

If the guys at halo made that claim we would be cynical too.

The bottom line the consumer dosent like being fed a line of crap for a product they can judge the performance of by themselves. It turns alot of us off.

[cphilip]

Yes the smoke is a bit thick. We are slaying hype here not your product. Stick to the truth and sell the snake oil to the kiddies.

[WickedAirSportz]

State of the art microcontroller?

Well, perhaps you guys should be taking your complaints up with Microchip, because they clearly list in their advertising that their processors ARE the state of the art in technology.

If your arguments are about how things are worded, well then I am sorry - that will probably not change. It's accurate, and usually taken from some other source (like the Microchip website and documentation in this case).

Buzz words are used for advertising purposes, that is how products are sold. You will find such words in our advertisements and statements, but you will not find anything that is inaccurate.

[WickedAirSportz]

We are not doubting the claim that your product works. Your products usually do. Not once did we say your products DIDNT work.

Ah, here is another point that is a bit personally irratating.

There are those that are doubting that this technology is not possible (even though the results certainly prove otherwise). Just because YOU can not create the technology, does NOT mean it can not exist. I think this is probably the biggest issue in the "are UFO's real" debate. Technology beyond our scope of thinking is certainly not possible - we are just not thinking hard enough.

[Xen]

Nothing you say is inacurate eh? Well gravity itself can't feed faster than 13 bps and you site claims that the turborev can feed 16 bps. Since when does an impeller become an instrument to force feed (i.e exert constant pressure on the balls) the paintballs into the breech? Seems like you trying to misslead people.

[Miscue]

Re: A little challenge...

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
I'll tell you what, since the days of agitated hoppers are numbered, and Wicked Air Sportz will be releasing our own force feed hopper in the future, I would be happy to openly discuss the technology that makes the TurboRev the fastest feeding device for the Revolution.

As Bill Mills pointed out, he conducted his tests with a 1st generation TurboRev with the stock 4 blade impeller. After Bill's tests, I did change the software a little bit to help in those situations where there are fewer balls in the hopper to start with.

Now, if people would like an informative discussion about this technology, I am open to it. The technology is quite possible, and it works - I don't think Bill got a big check to lie on the Warpig results.

Some of the posts here are dead on the money about how it works, and others are so far off in left field. It seems that most of the people posting are in their youth, and are probably not very experienced with assembly language programming, or even the basic tricks you can do with the PIC micros. If you think you need multiplication or division instructions, you are thinking too high level. There are no such requirements in the TurboRev software, although lookup table pointers are certainly built in realtime (even with the limited RAM).

The concept of there never being a "gap" between two balls is wrong. Out of months worth of testing, I have only seen a few times where two balls were actually touching together (no space between) right as they passed the dead center portion of the infrared beam. Remember, the beam is modulated at a particular pattern to eliminate reflections from the balls false triggering the receiver, and to eliminate problems with ambient light.

Basically, what I would like from this discussion, at the end of course, is a public apology. When we are done, the information that I am going to give would allow others to produce a competing product. As I stated, we are looking toward the future with our new hopper (which will likely be as doubted as everything that I have ever worked on in the past). You have to ask yourself one question, if nothing else - why does the TurboRev feed faster than any other aggitated hopper in existance?

Let me know if we can have a rational convesation here.


Perhaps when this discussion is closed, we can move on to the Equalizer doubts.

Rational Conversation? I suppose we should mimic you with conjectures and statements we have not attempted to back up in a logical fashion.

Once again, you've made comments w/o any supporting evidence/data. Your authority on the matter is self-proclaimed. You have not been able to answer the simple questions : WHY? and HOW? other than that it's because you say so.

So, some things are in left field. WHICH claims are incorrect? Support with evidence.

I do not see the necessity of an apology because the information presented: A - Has no ill-intent. B - Invites and does not inhibit counter-argument to test the validity of the claims. C - Has not been disproven by you or anyone else, and thus stands as the best flow of reasoning to base our understanding of the matter.

"It seems that most of the people posting are in their youth, and are probably not very experienced with assembly language programming, or even the basic tricks you can do with the PIC micros."

This is your response to my post I assume. Reason is timeless and undiscriminating. A logical proceeding is no less sound or less valid if born from the mind of a five year old or a sixty year old. Don't tell us what our ages are, explain why the logic is wrong.


<marquee><B>PROVE IT......PROVE IT......PROVE IT......</B></marquee>

[WickedAirSportz]

Since when does an impeller become an instrument to force feed (i.e exert constant pressure on the balls) the paintballs into the breech?

There is not constant pressure on the balls.

I will be back tomorrow to check the responses. If people would like to know how this works, and have an open mind, with an open discussion, that would be great.

Once the discussion is complete, there will be nothing left to "prove" to anyone, and the nay-sayers will probably feel a little silly.

[Miscue]

Show us the code, so we don't have to bother with getting a chip programmer to get it ourselves. Provide commenting on the code that shows where the chip does all the things you say it does.

[cphilip]

Well Jim heres the thing...no one here is saying your product is not better than say a VL revy. No matter how it works. We just hate to see you stoop to what we feel are gross exagertions to sell it. Thats the point here. Maybe you feel compelled to do that but around here that doesn't sit real well. We perfer honesty and technical data. Facts. If that doesn't sell then well we would rather not condone its use to do so. See?

It's nothing personal at all. It's just the general attitude we cultivate here on AO

[WickedAirSportz]

Show us the code, so we don't have to bother with getting a chip programmer to get it ourselves. Provide commenting on the code that shows where the chip does all the things you say it does.

Not a chance... I am going to do something even better. I am going to hold your hand, and walk you through the technology, make you answer the questions, and let you build one yourself.

BTW, I was not foolish enough to not lock the PIC chip.

[Butterfingers]

WAS,

The test results don't prove that the "AI technology" is possible. It just proves your loader feeds faster.

Sorry a change in the loaders logic does not consititute "AI"

Nor... is a $4 pic a state of the art microcontroller.

Perhaps we have diffrent definitions of "AI"

To me the optical eye picking up changes in feed rate and comparing it to a pre made chart does not constitute AI.

Or is it even possible given the limited capabilities of the microchip?