Wicked Air Sportz: Turbo Rev

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by 314159

the reason that this is said, is that the instructions can move 8 bits at a time. just dealing with the 8 least significant digits of the program counter limits you to within the first 256 memory locations. if you add a couple lines of code, you can get around this limitation by writing to the high bites of the program counter

Ok, so you manipulate the PC register to get around the limitation. This does what... allows you to sacrifice space used for one thing, and give it to another... and you lose a bit from the workaround. Suppose there are no limitations and you don't need a work around... you got 512 words to do something with. You got a look-up table, you got all these things that are being monitored, it's gotta know when to spin, when to not spin, how fast... you got 512 words, 25 bytes of memory, and an instruction set that takes 30 instructions to multiply two numbers together.

And, it has to substantiate the claims of "latest state-of-the-art microprocessor with artificial intelligence software" and "maximum possible" as a reminder to what this was all about.

it all has to do with how creative your programming is, i have an electronic board running on a pic, about 250 words of memory (not exactly a byte, a little longer) and a couple bytes of ram. this is with 5 16 bit timing variables, and other bells and whistles. assembly language can be extremly efficent.

"Creative programming" leaves things up to voodoo magic. If you gave Van Gogh a crayon, and a 1" x 1" canvas... he ain't gonna come up with much.

**314159** · 08-15-2002, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Miscue

Ok, so you manipulate the PC register to get around the limitation. This does what... allows you to sacrifice space used for one thing, and give it to another... and you lose a bit from the workaround. Suppose there are no limitations and you don't need a work around...

movlw HIGH TableStart ;setup PCLATH for the table
addwf TableOff + 1, w
movwf PCLATH
movlw TableStart & 0x0FF ;figure out the offset
addwf TableOff,w
btfsc STATUS, C ; if necessary, increment pclath
incf PCLATCH, f ; goto the correct 256 address page
movwf PCL ; update the pc
TableStart ;table data start

8 instruction cycles, that is not bad, and there's the code to do it, you might call it a workaround, but it works, and it works raithe well.

Originally posted by Miscue
Great. The chip in question has 25 bytes of memory, and 512 words of program space. "Creative programming" leaves things up to voodoo magic. If you gave Van Gogh a crayon, and a 1" x 1" canvas... he ain't gonna come up with much.

*shrug* a comermative postage stamp???

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 07:35 PM

The size of the work around is not important... my point was that work-around/no work-around... doesn't matter.

"Suppose there are no limitations and you don't need a work around... you got 512 words to do something with. You got a look-up table, you got all these things that are being monitored, it's gotta know when to spin, when to not spin, how fast... you got 512 words, 25 bytes of memory, and an instruction set that takes 30 instructions to multiply two numbers together."

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 07:40 PM

BTW, this is the most fun I've had in a thread in a long time.

/me shakes hands with 314159

Thanks for being a great sport!

**314159** · 08-15-2002, 07:48 PM

this almost reminds me of what this one engineer told me, "the secret of beeing a good engineer is how many tricks you can pull". kinda makes it sound like beeing a cheap hooker.

bottom line, i think that it is possible. call it a hunch, but i don't think that they programmed it that well. i would like to see someone test one, or i might go foot the bill for one because i am curieous now.

miscue, are you going to be at shatnerball?

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 08:04 PM

You're right... it's hard to say it's impossible with 100% certainty until people try to do it and finally give up after exhausting all approaches. But if this board is a counter-example, I will buy that board... put my TurboRevy on a plaque... and have a gold plate engraved with: "This is paintball's greatest piece of engineering, but it still can't outfeed a HALO."

I'd LOVE to make it to Shatnerball... but I can barely afford a tank of gas.

Just a poor college kid.

Boo hoo. Hehehe.

**DarkPhoenix** · 08-15-2002, 08:07 PM

I admit Warped Air Sportz' sales tactics are questionable at best but in a test conducted by Warpig, the only other hopper that was able to beat out a Turbo Rev board equipped revy was a revy on a warp feed, I believe. I have both the x-board and the Turbo Rev, and I have found the turbo rev to have more advantages than the x-board, I notice only very little difference between the two's operation, though.

**314159** · 08-15-2002, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Miscue
Just a poor college kid. Hehehe.

me too, just going cause it is local. your thread turned out real nice. maby next time i will fall on your side of the issue, till next time.

**314159** · 08-15-2002, 08:16 PM

i noticed that on the x board they pulled out the 12 volt regulator, so it would appear that they are running the motor off of the full 18 volts from the batteries, maby this is what the preformance increase in the x board is linked to. i suppose it could always be that cute little pic 12c508a too.

**CenterFire** · 08-15-2002, 08:19 PM

About the methodology of the TurboRev:

I believe that it is supposed to calculate how fast you are shooting (according to the eye) and adjust motor speed based on that. Not sure what this will mean to you guys who know the specs on the chip and such, but I just thought I would mention it.

EDIT - From WAS on their boards:

"The TurboRev has custom computer logic that determines the optimal motor speed and torque based on how fast the balls are being allowed to fall (which is how fast you are shooting)."

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 08:22 PM

Well, looking at the TurboRev board... I don't believe it has the hardware to adjust power/speed... just turns on and off. I'm not an EEG dude, so not sure. Anyone know?

**314159** · 08-15-2002, 08:59 PM

here's the datasheet for the pic on the turborev board (same pic that is on the x board) http://www.microchip.com/download/li...ata/80023b.pdf

the processor does have the capability of controlling the speed of the motor by rapidily turning it on and off. the motor itself would not stop moving... this is just another trick to controll how much power the motor gets.

**Miscue** · 08-15-2002, 09:08 PM

Humm... that's what I figured.

So... how is "torque" adjusted then? Would have to adjust the amps...

**Vegeta** · 08-15-2002, 09:08 PM

Oh man this is jsut so awesome! JOOEWWWWW!
I love it when Cue breaks out the tech stuff.

**Butterfingers** · 08-15-2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by DarkPhoenix
I admit Warped Air Sportz' sales tactics are questionable at best but in a test conducted by Warpig, the only other hopper that was able to beat out a Turbo Rev board equipped revy was a revy on a warp feed, I believe. I have both the x-board and the Turbo Rev, and I have found the turbo rev to have more advantages than the x-board, I notice only very little difference between the two's operation, though.

The increase in feed rate could ALONE be attributed to the "WAS modified" Vortex Impeller that was in the revy.

I have a vorex impeller in my gutted revy, paralelly hooked to my warp motor, even at 9 volts the feed rate exceeds that of a standard 12 volt revy.

Wicked Air Sportz: Turbo Rev

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