Spinning Paintballs Tech Tip #3

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  • AGD
    The man from AGD

    • Oct 2000
    • 5916

    #1

    Spinning Paintballs Tech Tip #3

    Spinning Paintballs Tech Tip #3

    It was asked in another post what effect do riffled barrels have on spinning a paintball, not drilled holes, actual rifling like in real guns. This is a good question and one that was explored by our research team.

    In theory spinning a projectile on the axis of flight adds gyroscopic stability as well as averages out any imperfections in the surface air flow. Paintballs leave a bad turbulence wake behind them that "walks around" the back of the ball as it flies through the air. This is the main cause of a paintballs inaccuracy as the turbulence tail drags the ball around sideways in flight. Spinning the ball should create a tornado like vortex in the back of the ball thereby evening out all the turbulence so the ball is not pulled any particular way.

    So great you say lets do it and get more accuracy!! Well if it was possible it would already have been done. The problem is the liquid fill, when you rotate the shell, the liquid tends to stay where it is. The best example of this is a glass of water with ice floating in it, when you rotate the glass the ice stays in the same place (you have all seen it). So if you can grab the ball hard enough to go from 0 to about 10,000 RPM's in 5 thousands of a second (remember TechTip #1?) Yes the shell is spinning but the fill is not. When the ball leaves the barrel the viscosity of the fill slows the shell down but the fill's rotation is speeding up from the shell too, so you get an almost instant reduction of the RPM's out of the barrel. The balls rotation does not come to a complete stop because the shell does impart some spin to the fill.

    In order to test this properly we actually developed a gun that spun the barrel, with the ball in it, up to 30,000 RPM's and then shot the ball out. In this way we knew the ball and the fill were completely up to speed when it left the barrel. We had visions of a spinning barrel paintgun that would make that high speed turbo wine! Unfortunately this didn't improve the accuracy because the ball is still too light.

    As a final test we developed a barrel that had three razor edged knife blades running down the length of the bore. Using our plastic paintballs they wedged in the blades perfectly and we spun up the barrel and fired more test rounds. Because the knives would cut the ball we could examine them after the fact to see if they were rotating in the barrel etc. Again unfortunately we saw no improvement in accuracy and gave up.

    Based on this data we believe round paintballs are too light and have lousy aerodynamics to expect any more accuracy than what we are currently getting. When the military came to us and wanted a more accurate non lethal system we made a bullet shaped, spin stabilized paintball that far outperformed any equal weight round projectile. Accuracy by volume has been, and will remain, the best way to score eliminations.

    Just the facts from,

    AGD

    sigpic
  • Ninja B0Y
    Registered User
    • Oct 2000
    • 321

    #2
    So much for those 1-shot 1-kill thumpers...

    Comment

    • zads27
      Student of Life
      • May 2001
      • 565

      #3
      30,000 RPM? geeez... crazy AGD people ;D

      Hey, can I get some of those bullet shaped paintpellets? hehe
      ***************************************
      To do is to be. -Descartes
      To be is to do. -Voltaire
      Do be do be do. -Frank Sinatra

      Comment

      • thecavemankevin
        the living un-banned
        • Feb 2001
        • 4346

        #4
        Dude, that is so wierd...you notice how i said part 1??? Well i was planning on making part 2 my idea for a PB marker were it would spin the barrel. I based my spechs off the Tippman M98 though

        I thought this up, and even made a few design specs (although i left most of the math/physics out ) about 3 years ago in my physics class.

        Hey, i could be an AGD tech, great minds think alike


        thank you for answering my questions.

        [This message has been edited by thecavemankevin (edited 07-13-2001).]


        Quote: MarkM
        "virus attacks have been dealt with, same with back door nasties. ."

        My feed back

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        • Major Ho
          Long time no see
          • Jun 2001
          • 1262

          #5
          Look Look Look! Even Mr. Kaye says, "Accuracy by volume has been, and will remain, the best way to score eliminations." Haha, I was just reading an article on accuracy or volume? The two markers to prove the article was an Angel and an Autococker. Sooo, following Mr. Kaye's advice, I'm gonna bring TWO cases of paint to dump on people next time.(Just funnin' ya )

          ------------------
          "Alright, no one look until I get my cork back in!"- Ham, Toy Story 2, one of the greatest movies ever made

          Comment

          • MaGSkEr
            Ah's ah useless
            • Oct 2000
            • 325

            #6
            hmmmm..... interesting. *blows in bubble pipe*

            Comment

            • squall
              it's that guy....
              • Jun 2001
              • 119

              #7
              What would happen if you placed divots in the paintball shell to reduce the "walkaround" effect of air behind the paintball? Rounded divots, or a more aggressive Hard cornered hexagonal shaped divot would allow the air to flow closer to the ball surface, reducing the turbulent wake that the ball leaves behind.

              Just like Golf ball aerodynamics... for paintball?

              Maybe a 4:1 rifling twist rate to impart as much spin on the ball and fill as possible, or 10:1 with the divots as they will pull a little more paint into the spin with them?

              And if all else fails, stick them in a backspin barrel to see how straight they fly.

              Sounds good in theory... what are your thoughts?

              ------------------
              "...it's a conspiracy of our relative reality at frequency!" -me
              "I'll take my sweet 16 over any current weapon, of any countrys' military." -Army

              "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." -General George S. Patton

              Comment

              • keebler
                Registered User
                • May 2001
                • 381

                #8
                <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AGD:
                Accuracy by volume has been, and will remain, the best way to score eliminations.</font>
                dont mean to disagree or anything, but i wanted to see if i shot more paint throughout the day if i would get more eliminations. well i bought a case and a half for the day (i usualy go through half a case). i had my mini mag and i would rain paint in from the break, when i seen a guy, when guys were running and everything. i kept track of how many poeple i eliminated and i got an average of 2 or 3 a game (with teams of 7 or 8 people). that is around the same i usualy get using only a half a case throughout the entire day. it might help some people, but not me.

                Comment

                • AGD
                  The man from AGD

                  • Oct 2000
                  • 5916

                  #9

                  As usual Bill points out some pertinent facts. Yes the fill is thicker than water but the incredible acceleration rate of the RPM's when rifling a barrel makes the difference less obvious. Think of dropping a marble into a glass of honey, it takes a while to sink to the bottom. Now fire that marble into the honey at 500 fps and it goes to the bottom without hesitation.

                  Maybe I was not clear but in my post I wanted to make the point that as the ball leaves the barrel the fill slows the rotation of the shell down but the same force also speeds the fill up. So in effect the ball's RPM "meets in the middle" somewhere and yes the ball is spinning as if flies down range. What we do see in the data that tells us the fill is not up to speed is the deceleration of the RPM's out of the barrel. We determined this by putting marks on the ball that showed us how fast it was spinning.

                  SO curving paintballs as well as the Flatline Barrel do spin the balls but must over spin them in order to have enough residual spin to make them curve in flight. My overriding point in this is that there was not a dramatic increase in accuracy when doing this.

                  AGD

                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • cphilip
                    Former Moderator

                    • Jun 2026
                    • 16216

                    #10
                    Bill and Tom, I sit and watch in amazment at you two. Facinating stuff! Makes me think. You guys are my Hero's. Love it! Love it! Keep it up. Now this is what AO can realy do for us Guys. I am gettin smarter all the time.

                    Phil

                    ------------------
                    Quote: Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy
                    Author: Benjamin Franklin


                    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                    cphilip.com

                    Comment

                    • Major Ho
                      Long time no see
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 1262

                      #11
                      CPhilip, your back! I found someone with more posts than you, Pyro, 1200 some...I did try the extra paint deal one day too, I just wound up with leftover paint but i was more confident on the field not having to worry about running out, I still got about the same amount of eliminations with the extra paint.

                      ------------------
                      "Alright, no one look until I get my cork back in!"- Ham, Toy Story 2, one of the greatest movies ever made

                      Comment

                      • XspyX
                        I sleep naked!
                        • Jan 2001
                        • 1556

                        #12
                        I feel smart


                        Does it smell like updog in here to you?
                        Originally posted by Automagisurdad
                        and the barrel is no good cause its a 14 and not 12.

                        Comment

                        • cphilip
                          Former Moderator

                          • Jun 2026
                          • 16216

                          #13
                          Heat has more than me also. And there are some others too. And we all lost a bunch in the crash. However their posts are much better quality than mine...So they have many more quality points! And Yipes posts ought to count as at least 10 each.

                          Yep! back!! only been gone a couple days...Good stuff happening here today though huh?


                          AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                          cphilip.com

                          Comment

                          • Flamebo
                            Registered User
                            • Oct 2000
                            • 1286

                            #14
                            Wow... Nice explanation!

                            Comment

                            • BlackVCG
                              Grubby Owner

                              • Oct 2000
                              • 4956

                              #15
                              <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by squall:
                              What would happen if you placed divots in the paintball shell to reduce the "walkaround" effect of air behind the paintball? Rounded divots, or a more aggressive Hard cornered hexagonal shaped divot would allow the air to flow closer to the ball surface, reducing the turbulent wake that the ball leaves behind.

                              Just like Golf ball aerodynamics... for paintball?

                              Maybe a 4:1 rifling twist rate to impart as much spin on the ball and fill as possible, or 10:1 with the divots as they will pull a little more paint into the spin with them?

                              And if all else fails, stick them in a backspin barrel to see how straight they fly.

                              Sounds good in theory... what are your thoughts?

                              </font>
                              AGD produced a machined nylon ball with dimples in it that looked like a miniature golf ball in .68 caliber. The end result was that it shot worse than a regular paintball.
                              My Feedback

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