Barrel Efficiency, Tech Tip #1

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  • AGD
    The man from AGD

    • Oct 2000
    • 5916

    #1

    Barrel Efficiency, Tech Tip #1


    Guys,

    I have decided to do a tech tips series of posts so you will understand certain technical processes that go on in the paintball gun. We have tested everything I will talk about and any speculations will be pointed out.

    In the tech forum there is a long post on what is the most efficient barrel so here are the facts.

    Barrel Efficiency, Tech Tip #1

    Barrels are only there to accelerate the ball from a standstill to 300 fps. In theory they also help with accuracy but that's another post. The ball goes through incredible acceleration on its way down the barrel. The balls acceleration rate is approx. 50,000 feet per second to get to 300 feet per second in 10 inches. The entire barrel travel time is about 6 thousandths of a second and this means the ball is seeing about 1500 G's when its getting pushed out the gun. Although this may sound incredible if someone out there would like to do the math you will see that I'm close.

    Air pressure behind the ball is what causes this acceleration to happen. This pressure varies between the different guns but is generally between 50 to 125 pounds per square inch at its peak. The air pressure peaks right when the ball starts moving down the barrel, after that, the ball moving down the barrel creates a bigger chamber so the pressure drops. This is why low pressure guns are a myth, in reality all guns shoot at considerably lower pressure than 200 psi.

    Peak pressures above 150 psi tends to break balls down the barrel due to really high acceleration and G forces. If you don't have any way to control the peak pressure behind the ball, the only way you can change it is to go with lower pressure in the air chamber, hence low pressure guns. AGD uses the precise contour of the power tube tip to release air in a controlled manner behind the ball to limit peak pressures to around 60-80 psi..

    It is simple to understand that the harder you push something the faster it will accelerate and get up to speed in a shorter distance. So what distance do we have to get the ball up to speed? The effective length of the barrel is from the balls position before it's fired, to the place in the barrel where the pressure gets released, This is usually at the first porting holes or the step in the barrel. Porting is there to release gas pressure!! You are effectively stopping the acceleration at the ports so your 14" barrel that is half full of holes only has an effective length of 7".

    Now we understand that we need to limit the peak pressure behind the ball to keep it from blowing up, and that the pressure drops as the ball moves down the barrel. The next question we need to ask is, how far down the barrel does the ball have to go before the pressure gets to low to do anything useful? That answer is 8-10 inches. We know this from looking at the graphs that our gun dyno puts out. If your peak pressure is higher, say over 100 psi you can get away with a shorter barrel, if it's lower then you need a longer barrel. Since AGD is the only gun manufacturer to actually test their pressures behind the ball you might have a hard time getting this info for other guns.

    So as far as our guns are concerned, the best efficiency would be had with an 8-10" effective length barrel. Since two piece ported barrels with an effective length of about 5-6" are the rage right now you hear a lot of complaints about gas efficiency. Under some circumstances there is a good reason to use a short effective length barrel. Short barrels cut off the acceleration abruptly by venting and this has the effect of tightening up the shot to shot velocity variation. If you need this at the expense of efficiency then go ahead. Tighter velocity control usually translates into some improvement in accuracy due to better consistency.

    So if you want the best of all worlds, limit your peak pressure, let your ball accelerate all it wants, don't follow the crowd and keep asking questions.

    AGD
    sigpic
  • Miscue
    Super Moderator

    • Oct 2000
    • 7105

    #2
    Hey now! This is a great idea... hope you have a permanent place to put this so we can all go "See, I told ya so, says right here."

    ------------------
    'Sacrifice the Body'
    68 PF - HyperFrame - 68 Flatline - SS BigShot

    Miscue's Profile

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    • Allen
      Registered User
      • Jun 2001
      • 256

      #3
      Gee, I've been telling people that before... Not with the exact numbers, though. Plus I am no rocket scientist. 12in Lapco Bigshot-"effective" length of around 10 inches. I don't have mine here to measure, but the only porting on the thing is in a band right before the muzzle break.

      ------------------
      "Don't spend so much on parts that you can't afford to play."
      "And I think your opinion that my opinion is wrong, is wrong."
      -Unknown, Gamespy Forums

      Comment

      • X-Plosive
        AO's sexiest member, and biggest post whore :)
        • Mar 2001
        • 1807

        #4
        For those of you who don't understand a Barrel that has more effective barrel length is more gas effecient. Effective barrel length is the portion of the barrel that is unported. However barrels with less effective barrel length and more porting give you tighter shot grouping(more accuaracy). I know Tom explained it well but I didn't understand at first I thought I might as well simplify it further.



        Taking mags apart is fun, its even more fun when you don't know what you're doing

        Comment

        • manike
          INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

          • Jan 2001
          • 3820

          #5
          <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AGD:
          Barrels are only there to accelerate the ball from a standstill to 300 fps. In theory they also help with accuracy but that's another post.</font>
          I'd like to read that other post please when you get time

          thanks

          manike

          Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

          Comment

          • Dubstar112
            Dubstar111x
            • Feb 2001
            • 2321

            #6
            Finally Im going to make use of my printer
            AO #765
            CCM Series 5
            Prerelease Impulse
            Hyperframed Warped Mag w/flatline tank
            Feedback.


            Good to know that somone of Tom's status seeks "relief" from a sport he helped create. A sport now ruled by a single patent.

            Comment

            • Dubstar112
              Dubstar111x
              • Feb 2001
              • 2321

              #7
              oh yeah and that means the 98 only has like 4 inches of barrel.... damn
              AO #765
              CCM Series 5
              Prerelease Impulse
              Hyperframed Warped Mag w/flatline tank
              Feedback.


              Good to know that somone of Tom's status seeks "relief" from a sport he helped create. A sport now ruled by a single patent.

              Comment

              • luke
                lukescustoms.com

                • Jan 2001
                • 8211

                #8
                Cool, meat and potatoes, I like it!

                Comment

                • cphilip
                  Former Moderator

                  • Jun 2026
                  • 16216

                  #9
                  Sorry to hear you are in "rain delay" but you loss is our gain. You got time on your hands huh?

                  Phil


                  AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                  cphilip.com

                  Comment

                  • DarkRipper
                    Elite
                    • May 2001
                    • 1111

                    #10
                    Good information. Stuff I've known about (except for the AGD testing info) but still a good refresher.


                    DR

                    ------------------
                    Owned a PF mag in 96.
                    =)
                    Oderint dum metuant

                    Comment

                    • azzkikr
                      Lord and Master
                      • Nov 2000
                      • 592

                      #11
                      isn't it nice to know and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. Later AZZKIKR
                      mess with the best, DIE like the rest.
                      when it absolutely, positively has to shoot well everytime
                      http://www.theangelguy.com

                      Comment

                      • Jeb_Hoge
                        Registered User
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 143

                        #12
                        What about bore sizing? Is it as substantial an issue as it's been made to be lately, or is it not so important (ref. the Palmer theory of the paintball distorting under the initial impact of the airburst so that all sides are in contact with the barrel breech when acceleration begins)?

                        Comment

                        • luke
                          lukescustoms.com

                          • Jan 2001
                          • 8211

                          #13

                          Jeb_Hoge,

                          EXCELLENT question! AGD..............

                          Comment

                          • FeelTheRT
                            Registered User
                            • Jun 2001
                            • 2950

                            #14
                            how does a stock Emag/RT barrel's efficancy compare to a 12" DYE one peice barrel..?
                            FS: RARE Adrenaline Angel LED #8



                            ~~~ FS:ASA, angled drop ~~~
                            ~~~ FS: DYE sight rail && Angel LCD bolt

                            Comment

                            • LCDmag1
                              Registered User
                              • Jun 2001
                              • 157

                              #15
                              So the effective barrel lenth is before the porting starts on an unsteped barrel.

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