MOTM AO Input.

[flyingpootang]

your choice is your choice. it's your deal. i personally vote based on what i think applies to each category. if i don't think a gun fits in, then i don't vote for it.

I agree with Lee If the entry is not to your liking don't vote for it. You don't have to critic the entries whether they belongs or not. What if I said thats way to common, nothing special about that mag, and it dosen't belong here it's to plain Even before the polls opened my classic was back in my pumpmag. I didn't whine or cry that I was getting hated on openly nor did I post any objection of what was going on. If I would have lost I simply would have tried to switch it up to make it more appealing, but to my taste not based on opinionated members. I think Jay is doing a great job and shouldn't change anything.

[ThePixelGuru]

1) Do you want only true "Classic Mags" or are we talking about OLDSKOOL in design/spirit /function ? 1b) Is a pump either ?

2) Custom markers allowed or only all stock ? 2b) Fixed Limit on customizations ?

3) Mmm , SS parts as a requirement or Alu okay ? 3b) How much of each allowed ?

4) Do we want all these distinctions ?

5) What else ?

6) Anyone pissed about the Open division ?

1) "Classic 'Mags" to me means 'mags with parts mostly from the earlier era of AGD; splash kits, SS valves and bodies, single triggers et cetera.
1b) Pump 'mags are hard to call. Back in the "good ol' days" only an idiot would take his speedy new semi and convert it to the slow old pump he just got rid of. However, the pumps fit even less with the crazy paint sprayers that take up most of the Open Division, so might as well leave 'em in the Oldskool Division.

2) All stock is boring.
2b) That would also be boring. So long as it captures the "feel" of the division it's all good.

3) Depends marker to marker... Clearly if it's got a ULE body, X-Valve and Intelliframe it's not Oldskool, but one of the above is probably excusable (especially if it's a pump 'mag with a ULE but a stock class feed on it).
3b) Flexible. Depends what the marker looks like to you.

4) If it keeps the whiners away, sure.

5) I have seen the Oldskool Division straying from what I think Oldskool is. Lots of custom anodizing and flashy aluminum recently, rather than splash kits and mixed color SS parts. Suppose that depends more on the entries themselves than the judging, though. Also, we might want to consider what people are voting on. Are the voters rating the markers against some particular criteria or just going on personal preference? Either's fine, but drawing that distinction would, again, keep the whiners away.

6) Now that you mention it, Freebird's rifle didn't seem to fit with the Open Division at all. It would fit with the Oldskool Division even less, though, and it deserved to win something, so I guess it worked out the best it could have.

Side note to [NA]WARLORD: Man, you had some good points at first, but then when you wouldn't shut up and had to try to muck up another thread because you didn't get the answer you wanted the first six times you asked... It just gets old, man. Decent criticism delivered poorly just doesn't help. My marker didn't even make finals this month, and when I looked back on the choices RRfireblade made it was clear to me that he passed mine up because the coolness was in the whole rig and the 'mag itself just didn't stand out. Yours made it to the final vote, and when the vote turned against you you cried foul. Sac up, man, you made it farther than me.

Thanks for keeping MOTM going, RRfireblade. I thought it was a great idea from the beginning, and it just got better when you added the Oldskool Division. Maybe one day I'll have something good enough to get annihilated in the final vote by a better 'mag.

[Madmarx]

First of all,

All Hail Jay!!!!

Second is just my 2 cents 'cause you asked...

Classics, Old Skoolers or whatever shouldn't have ULE bodies or X-valves that way eliminating the fancy ano jobs.
Putting an x-valved ule bodied mag against a Classic, chrome pf w/ splash parts just doesn't seem right to me.
There are a lot of custom painted, polished or powder coated steel bodies out there along with nearly completely stock mags that have 1 off custom hand made pieces.

[SummaryJudgement]

I considered the "Classic" category to be more "old-school". As in older mag stuff. Classics, minimags, pumps (the earliest I saw one was 97, that's oldschool to me), even micros have been around for at least a decade. Just nothing "new" as mentioned earlier ie, DW, ULE, E/X mags, Pneumags, etc.

[kruger]

And, I say that all this bickering sucks all the fun and spirit out of the contest. Heck, it aint even a contest. Its a bragging thread. "Look at what I got" is all that anybody is saying. You want to formalize it, divide it up with a bunch of qualifiers and have 38 different divisions? Go ahead, but it is still a bragging thread. And, when you put in specific rules of "you cant have this, but you can have that", then you are really opening it up to debate in detail.

I say, leave it the way that it is. Just a friendly little beauty contest. In the great scheme of things, it dont matter.

[Smoothice]

I think the problem is that the oldskool division is so new.

The last 2 months winners were not guns that were heavily modded. They were nice clean mags.

This month I thought flyingpoontangs mag was going to win open class. I never for a second thought it would be in the oldskool division. I thought this because of the previous months winners.

Now we all know what the judge is looking for. And knowing is half the battle.

Go JOE!!!!

[PumpMag]

Seeing 1 heavily custom stock class PumpMag was amazing. Then FP had to enter his. Wow! Automags Rule!

This contest is for fun! It's been Jay's thread all along, suggested by our inventor, TK himself. AGD wanted to have an old school contest, so Jay delivered. AGD wanted it to go like classic cars, but seeing how people can mod their markers is what draws people to this forum. Keeping things old school, completely Mint from the box, or completely stock would get really boring, there would be no variety. Customization with "old school" feel is what everyone looks forward to.

You can make exceptions, as Jay has been doing if the old school feel is right. An X-valve seemed to take away from "old school" feel but it's a Pump marker with a Stock class feed. That itself makes it old school. Paintball was that way long before semis came along.

To endorse Automag Pumps as true classics and true old school, I present to you:

Action Pursuit Games December 1996, Special Paintball Gun Collector's Issue, Page 68,
the first marker in the Pump Paintball Gun section............

68 Automag Pump

[RRfireblade]

Yeah , that's right . . . Tom wanted Oldskool , it's all his fault.

Actually I thing he really wanted something more along the lines of antique or collectable Mags for the contest but I just don't see that as being practical. There's only so many falling in that catagory and other than a "Cool , where's you find that ? " I didn't see alot of fun in it. The idea for a second division as an alternative to what appears in the open class is an idea I did like and ran with , with my spin on it . . . for what thats worth.

I'd like to say thanks to everyone for the praise and support. I really do run MOTM for the love of Mags and AO. And even tho it is 'my' contest and my rules I want everyone to enjoy it and feel worthy of participating. I'll do what I can to make sure that continues. I wish I could let those who fail to make the finals how special their mags are and often how close they came. I've even toyed with the idea of a GMOTM (Ghetto) division for the worst in class. That might be the show stopper ! ! Stay tuned.

My hope is that MOTM opens up the eyes of Mag newbs to what potential lays out there and inspires everyone else by the thought, ingenouity and craftmanship showcased there. It's truly a testiment to the incredible range and longevity the Mag is capable of and after years of MOTM , new ideas still keep popping up all the time. Awesome. It's also something always (usually ) positive to check out on the forum. With all the doom and gloom in the headlines all the time , we need equal time too.

[AirAssault]

I do like it the way it is, I however think X valve does not = classic. RT, and classic valves only.

[wetwrks]

Frankly I think it should be up the the host as to where a particular gun should sit. You are running the contest, it is yours. You are more of an impartial judge of where a paintgun would/should sit.

[Jaan]

First off, I give *you* credit for even caring what other people think and in my opinion, putting in a lot more effort than is deserved to address the concerns of what seems like nothing more than a single whiner.

This is your contest. Don't let someone bully you around. There are people in this world who get by in life simply because they cry and moan and whine until everyone around them gives in, not because of any real talent. I hate the fact that there are some people out there who feel so freaking entitled that they would crap all over what was intended as nothing but a fun little contest.

I entered a black MiniMag a few months ago that didn't even make it into the finals for the Old Skool division. I was really disappointed, since it's my all time favorite gun, but I didn't go on and on and on about it. I put together another gun and entered that one another month, and it won. You win some, you loose some. I never felt any sort of entitlement though, it's not like I'm paying for the privilege, jeesh.

Since you asked though, I think Old Skool should be something that would have been possible "back then". Just because nobody did it 10 years ago, doesn't mean they couldn't have done it 10 years ago. I agree with a previous poster that back in the day nobody in their right mind would have taken their trusty semi 'Mag and turned it into a pump...however...there was a dedicated group of pump guys even then. The Paintball Marshals used to play once a month right up the street from me in Franklin MA...you can look it up in old APG magazines in the back.

'Mags were expensive back then. You didn't see a lot of mods because most people just used their guns as workhorses. The average 'Mag on the field was a boring gray and black gun. The MotM I put together out of new old stock parts would have cost a fortune back then...full splash kit, Hyperframe and warp, not counting the gun itself, was like what, a grand? I won't pay that much for a gun today, even a real one, let alone when I was in my 20's. Also, powdercoating, milling etc was available then as well, you should never dismiss creativity and skill.

You can also acept certain parts, like modern ASA's and Intelliframes. A lot of people back then cut off their trigger guards and put on double triggers...I think an Intelliframe is just an extension of that and I think we can all agree that it's a better solution then a gun with no trigger guard. I see it as being nothing worse than using modern tires on an old car. It's just safer, and does esentually the same thing.

Perhaps part of the perception of what is Old Skool is colored by what we all saw on the fields then. We didn't have the interwebs to show off. Every once in a while at a big game you would see a spectacular custom made 'Mag, but it was unusual. Think about it, it still is unusual to see them if you disregard what you see on-line.

Bah. It's your contest. Treat it like pr0n. You'll know it when you see it.