Message to AGD:

[questionful]

......

Yes you're right, it takes an incredible amount of drive to create a good product and then do a half-assed job of selling it.

Would you rather they made a half-assed product and did a good job of selling it?

[CKY_Alliance]

Would you rather they made a half-assed product and did a good job of selling it?

No, but why have a great product it you don't market it?

Why have one without the other?

[Lomarandil]

Tom, here's my idea. It's probably been thought of and used before, but you never know. . .

It's just an RT-style reg with a different kind of spring. I haven't thought about it that much, but I know it is worth experimenting with potential. And, if it hasn't been patented already, the spring mechanism could be used for all sorts of stuff. Basically, the spring has a carrier on each end. Each carrier rides on different threads (one could ride on a threaded shaft inside the spring, the other could ride on female threads encasing the spring). The threads are very steep, machined, and not necessarily regular throughout (like, their angle changes). By changing the difference between the angles of the threads, the spring's movement/force (pardon my terminology) ratio can be changed. The whole point of this is that the regulator spring would move the poppet very slowly, until desired pressure is reached, at which point the poppet suddenly blitzes closed. So, instead of the RT's "full-pressure recharge", a valve with the spring system describe above would have "full-pressure, FULL-FLOW recharge." I know no physics, so I don't know how this would practically work out, but being the all-mighty Tom K, what do you think?

Qful.. I like the idea, although the implementation might be tricky..

Lo

[AGD]

Quest,

The spring you describe sounds great but can not be made. In any case, the RT valve does slam wide open for full flow and then slams shut. The spring around the poppet valve actually has little to do with it, its all in the air flow against the piston. Keep thinking up ideas though!

AGD

[sdlm_]

What about this?

Design a Blow forward internally similar to the Automag, however instead of a sear use Air Pressure to hold back the bolt, and use a little pnuematic piston to close the on/off (I.e a piston where one side is has a much larger surface area to allow low pressure to close the hp on/off)...

When you pull the trigger, it moves a three way valve, venting the air holding the bolt back, and putting air into the bottom of a new on//off piston to close the flow through the marker.

As I understand Patents, this gets around PTPs patent, due to the fact that there is no sear to automate. It could fire very fast, have more or less he same relability as an Automag, and only minor changes would have to take place in the body (There could be no sear groove, just a 10-32 hole for QEV or the like). With the addition of an O-ring I do believe normal Automag bolts could even be used.

More importantly unlike homemade pneumag conversations, this wouldn't really need any adjusting, just put the LPR up to wherever it needs to be, and put some setscrews in the trigger to determine the pull and you are ready to go.

I am sorry if such an Idea has already been presented.

[Ratt]

Okay...now for the real reason this thread was created...My idea:

It may not even be feasable (due to the SP patent crap), but I still feel it is worth looking into. I am sure you have read or heard about the Navy's plan to build and install a Rail Gun on its ships. I have been wondering for a while if that concept could be scaled down and utilized in a paintball gun. I am not an engineer, so there are a myriad of specifics that I do not have, but the basic concept is this: a bolt sits between two rails (an anode and a cathode). When the trigger is pulled, electrical current runs from the positive terminal of the power supply up the positive rail, through the bolt, and down the negative rail, back to the power supply. This flow of current makes the railgun act like an electromagnet, creating a powerful magnetic field in the region of the rails up to the position of the bolt. In accordance with the right-hand rule, the created magnetic field circulates around each conductor. Since the current flows in opposite direction along each rail, the net magnetic field between the rails is directed vertically. In combination with the current flowing across the bolt, this produces a Lorentz force which accelerates the bolt along the rails. There are also forces acting on the rails attempting to push them apart, but since the rails are firmly mounted they cannot move. The bolt slides up the rails away from the end with the power supply, resulting in the paintball (which is sitting in front of the bolt) to shoot out of the barrel. The bolt can be returned to the pre-firing condition by a spring.

One positive aspect I can think of is that the gun would be airless (no more bulky tank on the back of your gun). I am guessing that one major obstacle would be power - having a system that uses electricity to create the magnetic opposing force needed to move the bolt forward at @280 fps may require a lot of juice, meaning a big battery, or small batteries with less life. Like I said, I am not an engineer, so I don't really have a lot of specifics. But, I am sure that someone with the time and money it would take to R&D this might be able to pull it of. I figure, if anyone has the means or knowledge to do it, it might be you. What do you think?

Devil - Nah, I haven't managed to make it out to Tama Hills. We have been underway a lot. We are just about finished with our summer cruise. I am going to try to set something up for October or November, and see if I can drag some of the guys out there with me. In the past 8 months, I have bought about 4 guns that I have yet to take out on the field. I really would like to get some paint through them.

And to the butthole idiot who said AGD is dead, and to take my idea somewhere else: I really don't have anything to say to you. Just go away.

[cyrus-the-virus]

No, but why have a great product it you don't market it?

Why have one without the other?

Smart parts, tippmann, and WGP seem to get along fine. Except they're the other way around.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Okay...now for the realy reason this thread was created...My idea:

It may not even be feasable (due to the SP patent crap), but I still feel it is worth looking into. I am sure you have read or heard about the Navy's plan to build and install a Rail Gun on its ships. I have been wondering for a while if that concept could be scaled down and utilized in a paintball gun. I am not an engineer, so there are a myriad of specifics that I do not have, but the basic concept is this: a bolt sits between two rails (an anode and a cathode). When the trigger is pulled, electrical current runs from the positive terminal of the power supply up the positive rail, through the bolt, and down the negative rail, back to the power supply. This flow of current makes the railgun act like an electromagnet, creating a powerful magnetic field in the region of the rails up to the position of the bolt. In accordance with the right-hand rule, the created magnetic field circulates around each conductor. Since the current flows in opposite direction along each rail, the net magnetic field between the rails is directed vertically. In combination with the current flowing across the bolt, this produces a Lorentz force which accelerates the bolt along the rails. There are also forces acting on the rails attempting to push them apart, but since the rails are firmly mounted they cannot move. The bolt slides up the rails away from the end with the power supply, resulting in the paintball (which is sitting in front of the bolt) to shoot out of the barrel. The bolt can be returned to the pre-firing condition by a spring.

One positive aspect I can think of is that the gun would be airless (no more bulky tank on the back of your gun). I am guessing that one major obstacle would be power - having a system that uses electricity to create the magnetic opposing force needed to move the bolt forward at @280 fps may require a lot of juice, meaning a big battery, or small batteries with less life. Like I said, I am not an engineer, so I don't really have a lot of specifics. But, I am sure that someone with the time and money it would take to R&D this might be able to pull it of. I figure, if anyone has the means or knowledge to do it, it might be you. What do you think?

Devil - Nah, I haven't managed to make it out to Tama Hills. We have been underway a lot. We are just about finished with our summer cruise. I am going to try to set something up for October or November, and see if I can drag some of the guys out there with me. In the past 8 months, I have bought about 4 guns that I have yet to take out on the field. I really would like to get some paint through them.

And to the butthole idiot who said AGD is dead, and to take my idea somewhere else: I really don't have anything to say to you. Just go away.

Great idea, but it's not possable. The amount of force you would need to get a paintball up to 280 FPS with out the use of air would be enormase, it would most likily shatter the paintball on impact. Also not to mention the exorbant cost of such a marker, we're most likily talking close too 5K per marker.

But atleast people are thinking outside the box.

[kruger]

Also, thinking outside the box, this railgun idea would work if.................you had some conductive material in the shell of the paintball. Nothing solid, but something that the magnetic field could grab on to. That would eliminate the need for a bolt, and the problem of returning the bolt to the pre-fire position. That, of course would depend on having a ball manufacturer willing to also think outside the box.

[MadPSIence]

Haven't posted here in a while...

I really don't know how AGD is just going to come back unless they sold out on what they are. What sells today is clone electro guns with a million types of crazy milling on the same 2-3 designs.

AGD I am sure could easily hop on board but what do you think AO and the whole following would think of that?

AGD Ego-Shocker-Mag? Gross thought really. Mags are amazing - the consumers of the mainstream simply aren't.

I'd be happy to just see the mag following maintained and fed. Great people, great guns. Few years ago I suggested AGD teaming up with all the loyal guys who now produce aftermarket for the mags. Why not collaborate?

2:45am and I could just be dreaming. Then again I came back here for some reason I guess. Nice seeing you all again. Big "hey!" to Tom. Hope you're doing great. Big wave to office lady too

[cyrus-the-virus]

Also, thinking outside the box, this railgun idea would work if.................you had some conductive material in the shell of the paintball. Nothing solid, but something that the magnetic field could grab on to. That would eliminate the need for a bolt, and the problem of returning the bolt to the pre-fire position. That, of course would depend on having a ball manufacturer willing to also think outside the box.

It won't work, I hate to say it but it's a bad, impractical, and expensive idea.

Kepp those gears going though.... just stay away from rail guns =D

[mostpeople]

Who knows, perhaps someday some AO'er will come up with a great idea that AGD can patent before the evil empire (SP) and run with it and make bazillions of dollars and we can all have automags on top again heheh.

[Toll]

If you get any plans drawn up for the railgun please immediately start working on the randomly appearing quad damage emitter.

[Skoad]

enjoy your can of worms Tom

[cyrus-the-virus]

Haven't posted here in a while...

I really don't know how AGD is just going to come back unless they sold out on what they are. What sells today is clone electro guns with a million types of crazy milling on the same 2-3 designs.

AGD I am sure could easily hop on board but what do you think AO and the whole following would think of that?

AGD Ego-Shocker-Mag? Gross thought really. Mags are amazing - the consumers of the mainstream simply aren't.

I'd be happy to just see the mag following maintained and fed. Great people, great guns. Few years ago I suggested AGD teaming up with all the loyal guys who now produce aftermarket for the mags. Why not collaborate?

2:45am and I could just be dreaming. Then again I came back here for some reason I guess. Nice seeing you all again. Big "hey!" to Tom. Hope you're doing great. Big wave to office lady too

A comercial version of the logic ripper mag could put AGD back in the main stream.

it has eyes
it has a micro switch
it'sgot cheater modes,
it's electronic

Everything the main stream wants.