Please explain

[BangStik]

I have been out of PB after a few years (had kids) and am finally getting back into it. They one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me are these electric markers. The light trigger pull and overall weight makes sense. They are extremely fast from the factories yet everyone continues to buy after market boards for them. The hoppers to feed them are outrageous. It seems like there is a race to the most bps. The puzzling part is where do you use this stuff? If fields and tourneys limit you what is the point? You tube videos?

[BigEvil]

I have been out of PB after a few years (had kids) and am finally getting back into it. They one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me are these electric markers. The light trigger pull and overall weight makes sense. They are extremely fast from the factories yet everyone continues to buy after market boards for them. The hoppers to feed them are outrageous. It seems like there is a race to the most bps. The puzzling part is where do you use this stuff? If fields and tourneys limit you what is the point? You tube videos?

Uh, yup. You hit the nail right on the head.

[rabidchihauhau]

to expand on the previous answer:

rules and events may place paper limits on ROF, but it seems that those who think cheating is "just part of the culture" have at least temporarily won the debate. Many scenario games let you shoot whatever you want, and manufacturers of high ROF systems dominate the tournament scene - at least politically. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

[BigEvil]

Many scenario games let you shoot whatever you want,.

I'm sure it happens, but I've never played in a scenario game that hasnt dictated a)ROF, and b)what type of mode you can shoot in. Logically, you would have to figure that the fields running any type of game must establish reasonable safety guidelines, or be held liable in case of an injury. Most of the problems that I have perceived come from dishonorable players blatantly breaking the rules and inadequate reffing. It is almost impossible to babysit some of these games with 1000+ players, and there are just too many people out there now that have never played on the honor system. It is quite frankly disheartening how fast things can 'fall apart' nowadays in an poorly supervised game.

[Beemer]

- at least politically. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

Hey you used the P word. Care or want to elaborate. Wink, nod.

[craltal]

Hey you used the P word. Care or want to elaborate. Wink, nod.

If I were to venture a guess I'd say it has something to do with sponsorships...

[BREAD_DA_PAINTER]

BPS = kiddies spending more of the parents monies. ...

Once they grow up and start spending own money BPS really dont impress that much then. ..

After what i saw at AO south im leaning toward me a pump.... Those guys rocked...

just my non sence

[Toll]

By and large it's the same reason people buy SUV's or for that matter, any sort of crisis-mobile. Do you need a corvette? No...not really. Your tempo works fine...but its just a tempo.

[Paint-Fool]

I'm sure it happens, but I've never played in a scenario game that hasnt dictated a)ROF, and b)what type of mode you can shoot in. Logically, you would have to figure that the fields running any type of game must establish reasonable safety guidelines, or be held liable in case of an injury. Most of the problems that I have perceived come from dishonorable players blatantly breaking the rules and inadequate reffing. It is almost impossible to babysit some of these games with 1000+ players, and there are just too many people out there now that have never played on the honor system. It is quite frankly disheartening how fast things can 'fall apart' nowadays in an poorly supervised game.

Well I play at a scenario field that doesn't have a limit on ROF. Also you can use any mode up to and including full auto during the day. Night time is supposed to be semi only. That doesn't mean that they don't police what's going on as in overshooting. If they see someone blatanly doing such you will receive a ref punch get three and you're gone. This policy seems to work very well at this field. Normal turn out is around 200 sometimes 400 or so. I'm not saying it's a great thing but at least they allow you to shoot how you want as long as you keep it in check. The majority of the time there aren't any problems with this system but of course you get a few that will try and abuse it. If you do you will be gone quick because I've seen the head ref throw people out even if they haven't received any punches...this guy doesn't take any crap. So I feel pretty safe at this field.

[FOG]

A place i know of had a no bps limit, at ascenario,,A coupla months ago,,there were no problems

[Paint-Fool]

A place i know of had a no bps limit, at ascenario,,A coupla months ago,,there were no problems

Just curious was this in Georgia? If so might be the same place I play.

[rabidchihauhau]

I'm sure it happens, but I've never played in a scenario game that hasnt dictated a)ROF, and b)what type of mode you can shoot in. Logically, you would have to figure that the fields running any type of game must establish reasonable safety guidelines, or be held liable in case of an injury. Most of the problems that I have perceived come from dishonorable players blatantly breaking the rules and inadequate reffing. It is almost impossible to babysit some of these games with 1000+ players, and there are just too many people out there now that have never played on the honor system. It is quite frankly disheartening how fast things can 'fall apart' nowadays in an poorly supervised game.

The Rules of the Rules:

in order to be effective, a rule must be definable, it must have visible boundaries and it must be enforceable.

If you can't monitor all of the players - you're not enforcing the rules. If you can't tell the ROF of a marker, you can't enforce limits. The quality of the players doesn't matter at all if the rules are unenforceable. We don't even get to the issue of cheating. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.

Almost impossible to babysit 1000 players. Yes, as long as the attitude is "I don't really care about enforcing the rules:. The REAL answer is "if I have 1000 attendees, I'm going to need 200 to 300 game officials.

Everyone ignores this simple reality and then complains afterwards. People should complain UP FRONT. A ref to player ratio of anywhere from 1 to 2 to 1 to 10 is the acceptable range,. depending on game format, field and a few other factors (length of play, etc). If you're planning on attending a large event - ASK THE DAMN PROMOTER WHAT HIS STAFF SIZE IS. If its 50 players for each ref DON'T GO - NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY ARE THEY CAN NOT ENFORCE THE RULES.

Note I haven't even addressed the issue of referee skill...

Same for tournaments. When money is on the line, I don't think anything less than 1 ref per player is acceptable!

Beemer - its ALL politics

[BigEvil]

^ Agreed

[hitech]

Being at a scenario game with a scenario team as refs probably made a huge difference. There certainly weren't any problems. Although I never really thought about the refs. I saw them alot. A perfect combination.

[rabidchihauhau]

The IDEAL is:

professionally trained sports official, mature, trained or experienced in paintball, has no personall affiliations (now or ever) with teams, players, manufacturers, sponsors, promoters or other game officials and one who receives his compensation from an organization that bills promoters but has nothing to do with the industry. (Promoter must provide escrow for the staff PRIOR to the event.)

Anything less than that is either asking for trouble or cause for suspicion or, at the very least, gives someone enough wiggle room to (somewhat) legitimately complain.

Experienced paintball promoters KNOW they are going to have staff issues during an event and have, for the most part, set things up so that they do NOT have to do what's (hard) and right but only have to give themselves a scapegoat. And there are all kinds out there - the 'inexperienced' scapegoat, the 'didn't show up' scapegoat, the 'asked for too much money at the last minute' scapegoat, the 'if he has a personal axe to grind I'll look into it' scapegoat, the 'obviously needed more bodies' scapegoat, the 'he works for/they are affiliated with (someone we have a problem with)" scapegoat and on and on.

I'm waiting for ONE player or team to get screwed over enough to take the case to court and sue on unfair business practices, fraud, theft & etc. when they prove in court that the promoter new full well that he was putting a questional reffing crew on the field. If your future sales were riding on the promotion you got for a win at an event and someone colluded to give it to someone else, you've got a case.

Short of that I don't see anyone biting the bullet and stepping up to the greater difficulty and expense of providing a REAL reffing crew on the field. I've been waiting for the teams to do it for years. Its amazing how many people in paintball swallow...