Ramping Q's

[Spider-TW]

In the NPPL, on the other hand, the rules remain semi-auto only. There is no in-game enforcement of velocity, and they use a trigger puller to test guns off-field to verify that they are shooting in true semi-automatic. They have no method in place to catch cheater modes/boards of the type that I described above. Recently, a gun designer/manufacturer told me that he's seen guns with software set up that actually recognizes the NPPL's trigger testing robot. According to this person, these guns will shoot with rate of fire ramping when used on the field, but if they detect fast trigger pulls that are constant (exact same amount of time between each pull - which the test "robot" does but a person doesn't) they revert to one shot per trigger pull.

Why hasn't SP started licensing encrypted or locked chips back to the different professional leagues? It could have an RF or bluetooth reader for verification.

I guess SP would end up paying for it (as a sponsor) and still wouldn't be able to sell it on the general market at a premium. never mind.....

[billmi]

Why hasn't SP started licensing encrypted or locked chips back to the different professional leagues? It could have an RF or bluetooth reader for verification.

I guess SP would end up paying for it (as a sponsor) and still wouldn't be able to sell it on the general market at a premium. never mind.....

I've got no clue on why SP has or hasn't done something like that, they'd be the only ones who could provide a true answer. I can speculate that since they've never been in the business of supplying boards for other people's markers, something like is not the direction they have gone in the past. Also, I think it would be hard for any gun manufacturer to be the board supplier to be required by both leagues - especially considering that PSP is owned by several competing manufacturers.

However, a couple of years ago, the scrutineer for the NPPL was pushing for that very idea (the league board, not SP.) His recommendation was that his company would provide universal boards (at a cost per player) that were sealed and not re-flashable, and that use of these boards would be required for all pro, and probably semi-pro players in the NPPL. IMHO, this is about the only practical way to enforce semi-auto. As I understand it, the rules committee was all for it, but it was shot down by Pure Promotions, the company that ran the NPPL tournaments (and which was owned by WDP, manufacturer of the Angel.)

From a financial point of view, I can see why tournament promoters might not want something like this. Sponsorship from gun manufacturers pay a lot of the bills for running tournament series (ever seen the how much the space for a show trailer costs at World Cup, and what a top level sponsorship costs - I could by an extra house and have money left over.) These companies do that, because the tournaments are a showcase for their products. That could change if their products were only able to be shown at the top level if they were gutted and had league required parts put in them.

[Shane-O-Mac]

I've got no clue on why SP has or hasn't done something like that, they'd be the only ones who could provide a true answer. I can speculate that since they've never been in the business of supplying boards for other people's markers, something like is not the direction they have gone in the past. Also, I think it would be hard for any gun manufacturer to be the board supplier to be required by both leagues - especially considering that PSP is owned by several competing manufacturers.

However, a couple of years ago, the scrutineer for the NPPL was pushing for that very idea (the league board, not SP.) His recommendation was that his company would provide universal boards (at a cost per player) that were sealed and not re-flashable, and that use of these boards would be required for all pro, and probably semi-pro players in the NPPL. IMHO, this is about the only practical way to enforce semi-auto. As I understand it, the rules committee was all for it, but it was shot down by Pure Promotions, the company that ran the NPPL tournaments (and which was owned by WDP, manufacturer of the Angel.)

From a financial point of view, I can see why tournament promoters might not want something like this. Sponsorship from gun manufacturers pay a lot of the bills for running tournament series (ever seen the how much the space for a show trailer costs at World Cup, and what a top level sponsorship costs - I could by an extra house and have money left over.) These companies do that, because the tournaments are a showcase for their products. That could change if their products were only able to be shown at the top level if they were gutted and had league required parts put in them.

When you consider that all the tourney guns pretty much shoot the same, it would make sense to make a "Spec" board to be handed out at the tourney. But gun manufacturers wont admit that a pball gun shooting 15 bps, is pretty much the same as another brands gun. Sure you have personal preferances, and ergonomics, but why wouldnt the players want a spec board? If every one had the same programing for their gun, the field would be level concerning guns. I realize that the gun companys dont want that, but they could still spin how their gun is better than anyone elses and so forth. NPPL/PSP needs to look to other sports type orginizations. Take Nascar for example. They are going to a standard body package with the only difference being the nose to help it look like the car it's supposed to be based off of. Nascar makes many things the same and lets the teams find out how to get more performance in other ways. There is no GOOD reason I can think of to not introduce a "Spec" board.

[Toll]

Paintball comes down to money rather than fairness and sport. No marker/board company is going to like the idea of a "standard" board that is required...because it puts their current product (in most cases) completely out of the loop. Why buy a tadao board when it's not legal to use in tournaments, for example.

[Spider-TW]

But gun manufacturers wont admit that a pball gun shooting 15 bps, is pretty much the same as another brands gun.

Blasphemy!

I was dreaming of a NASCAR type system too, mainly because of the parallels in where the sports started (outlaw, organized "cheating", leveling rules and enforcement). One problem is that NASCAR evolved from it's outlaw state and the final product is a huge organization of sponsors and rule bodies. Maybe someday we will have the Tide and Viagra teams, but it will at least be awhile. You're really facing something like a pro soccer team jersey with a team name and little sponsors (other than paintball related) on it, but with the technical oversight of NASCAR. Although, being on the Bud Light team with the cheer leaders and all would be pretty interesting.

The other problem and the reason the whole process is slow, is that every rule you add detracts from "the spirit of the sport". I think paintball will look better competitively than NASCAR with an equal amount of rules, but it will be a different game.

[Avale187]

You know, it seems to me there is one simple way to fix the problem. Limit the amount of paint someone can bring onto the field.

If you say only got 200 rds in your hopper, and another 200 on your back. GO ahead and shoot 30bps. You have what, 13-14 seconds of fire time? Then you're done?

Sorry, I just had a guy at a paintball store basically snub his nose at me for not being a speedball player. I personally think the tourny scene should move away from a bunch of paint spammers to more forest .

[Spider-TW]

You know, it seems to me there is one simple way to fix the problem. Limit the amount of paint someone can bring onto the field.

If you say only got 200 rds in your hopper, and another 200 on your back. GO ahead and shoot 30bps. You have what, 13-14 seconds of fire time? Then you're done?

Sorry, I just had a guy at a paintball store basically snub his nose at me for not being a speedball player. I personally think the tourny scene should move away from a bunch of paint spammers to more forest .

fullofpaint is probably finished with his paper by now.

The paint sponsors would not like that rule. However, Avale brings up a point in my mind. With small groups of people, you make your own rules. For small promoters of scenarios and tournaments, they can make their own rules given common expectations by the players. On a national level, none of the rules belong to the individuals anymore and you play within them or you don't play in that league. I guess I'm back at rules and enforcement again. Are there more smileys somewhere? I need one that turns in circles.

[Toll]

If players were limited by team to x amount of pods it would be a relatively balanced system but it comes back to the money. I know if I was a field owner and teams were *gasp* limiting their paint I might just keel over and die.

[B-Pow]

You know, it seems to me there is one simple way to fix the problem. Limit the amount of paint someone can bring onto the field.

If you say only got 200 rds in your hopper, and another 200 on your back. GO ahead and shoot 30bps. You have what, 13-14 seconds of fire time? Then you're done?

Sorry, I just had a guy at a paintball store basically snub his nose at me for not being a speedball player. I personally think the tourny scene should move away from a bunch of paint spammers to more forest .

This reminds me of an idea Tyger told me about. He waneted to run a tourney (3v3, 5v5, 7v7...whatever) where every player was allowed 1 full hopper and 1 pod of paint to incurage movement instead of shooting to win a game. The other part of the idea was that once the game began what you did with your pod was up to you (example, keep it with you or toss it in the spot your back player is intending to occupy).

Personally I think it would be an excellent idea and would truly bring moving back to speedball...instead of the paint flinging contest it has become. It might even bring back enough movement to make speedball TV friendly to non players, now what would the sponsers think about that!

I'll be totally honest if one of my local fields was going to run a tourney like that I would come out of the woods to play in it.

[p8ntbal4me]

Even before all that crap (which seem to fit the bill now adays) the All Americans were stripped of their NPPL title due to people noticing their guns shot a very even rythmn all the time.

The birth of Turbo 9.

Hmmmmm wonder who was the captain of that team back then,...? Billy Gardner,.. LOL!

Guess his early days werent any better than his ethics of today.

In my area, it started as a designer cheat, packaged as an aftermarket chip known as the XSF (sold online by Xtreme Sports Fulfillment) chip. These chips were touted to make any electronic gun stupid fast, and they did. As far as I know, these early chips were produced by Tadao Technologies for XSF. These chips were already being used by many of the top pro teams, within about a year many of the top pro teams were marketing their own aftermarket chips. Within that time period, there were a slew of other companies that entered the aftermarket chip market. Companies like Virtue, TAG, WAS, & Noxx were releasing their own products that were heavily demanded in the tournament scene. Many tournament producers found themselves painted into a corner when it came to dealing with ramping guns. Not everyone had them. Those that did would scream bloody murder if allegations were brought against them. There was no usable means of policing ramping guns. The NXL was among the first of the leagues to adopt ramping. They brought in radar guns, PACT timers, and developed a parabolic microphone to monitor the rate of fire of their players. Following their example, other leagues adopted similar policies. Ramping wasn't really embraced so much as it was tolerated on account of not being able to police all players and their equipment. By allowing ramping and capping the rate of fire, event producers and leagues could level the playing field for all players. The rate of fire cap also created an effective means of placing enforceable limits on the balls per second players could shoot on the field. The capped rate of fire, the penalties for exceeding that cap, and the technology that is used to enforce the cap, all contribute to the speedball game that we know today.

CS

[billmi]

Even before all that crap (which seem to fit the bill now adays) the All Americans were stripped of their NPPL title due to people noticing their guns shot a very even rythmn all the time.

They first publicly used Turbo Mode at the Challenge Cup, and no issue was made of it by the reffing staff. At the next NPPL (Portland) they weren't allowed to use it, due to insurance restrictions, and at World Cup that year, it was allowed due to a rule change made by the event promoter.

Aftershock won World Cup that year, and Ironmen took the series championship. No one was "stripped of their NPPL title."

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/npplcup98/index.shtml

The following year, it wasn't allowed at any NPPLs and wasn't used.

If cheating (using an illegal mode) is not ethical, how ethical is bearing false witness to cheating?

[latches109]

are you going to consider rapid firing with the RT Valve ramping?