pneumag "upgrade" rentals....

**txaggie08** · 11-11-2007, 07:51 PM

One word of caution. Players, particularly newer ones to semi-seasoned players who are buying some of their own gear,... would rather see working equipment, nice fields, good crowds, friendly staff, good prices, and the field management INVOLVED in the needs of the customer no matter how small or big the budget is.

Go back and read the thread, you'll see I'm not talking about opening my own field or running them as primary fleet rentals. I'm talking about offering them on my own at the field I work for as "upgrade" options to the rental groups.

As I said, panthercreek paintball's current rental fleet is GT's(a form side fed spyder clones) and 98's. Those guns are owned by the field owner/manager(aka my boss) and maintained by the staff and himself.

I appreciate the advice but you missed the point...

I'm also loath to rent ion's from past experience. We've had 3 for rentals over time....1 kind of still works, the others died very quickly.

**cyberave68** · 11-11-2007, 08:06 PM

Well i hate to be the one to say this, But if your useing CO2 you wont want to use a classic mag valve. If you pneu a classic mag and start hitting a higher ROF the valve will freeze pretty darn quick... Something to think about....

**p8ntbal4me** · 11-11-2007, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by viper-mayhem

Would it be possible to somehow build the response trigger like the Benchmark or something like that. I remember that you get 4 shots for 1 pull and 1 release. This what you do not have to do alot of servicing the pneumag internals.

99.99% of all insurance companies do not allow the autoresponse frame.

They did back in my early days,... but now adays with the fear of full-autos and such,... they are pretty much banned everywhere.

Sux.

**p8ntbal4me** · 11-11-2007, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by txaggie08

Go back and read the thread, you'll see I'm not talking about opening my own field or running them as primary fleet rentals. I'm talking about offering them on my own at the field I work for as "upgrade" options to the rental groups.

I read your post. I saw that you were trying to get public opinion about what would be a good alternative to "upgrades" for customers to gain an interest in the rental fleet which can be seen as a marketing matter for the field. "Man! I played at XYZ field last weekend and I rented the new upgraded EGO for an extra $20 buck. Thing was a cyclone and I was the rainmaker!"

I see the questions you were asking. But Im a player, and I had a chance as a contractor to change the field I call home. So when I got the chance,... I rolled a dozer and an excavator to build 2 brand new fields and a larger parking lot.

Just because thats what the owner said his customers wanted.

If your talking to your boss about the rental fleet, keep the other areas in mind when you start working on the numbers. In not saying your wrong,.. because you are VERY right. The rental fleet is the second thing a player will notice when they start to register in the morning.

The first will be the field itself.

Now that I see the way you worded you post,... I would not do such a venture unless you had a signed agreement with the field for a percentage of the rentals.

The reason I say that is,.. the field is a business. If you start to get business and he looses retnal business,.. one of 2 things has to happen: Either he kicks you out and starts offering the upgrade himself, or he tolerates the rental loss and pushes the sale cost onto another area of the business.

Please dont take that the wrong way. Im not assuming I know your boss or you as a person. From a business stand point,... this is not a good idea unless its in writting. If you can do that,.. then its a start to a good thing.

Think about the problems that would come with your guns attached to his name if something breaks on an "upgraded" gun and you dont have enough spares or can fix it.
That means an upset customer, on his field. He has to make that customer happy somehow. And hes not going to give out a free rental to them unless you agree to pay for it from your rentals. Ya know,.. why should he?

What Im saying is look into this. Your idea is new from the point your comming from. And if you can make it work,.. then you have yourself a nice deal to work with. Just protect yourself, and look at it from all the angles you can.

Thats all Im saying. :)

Best Wishes Man,... and Good Luck!

~ P8nt

**p8ntbal4me** · 11-11-2007, 10:18 PM

You know,... if you want to look into another area of interest that takes little money to start,... I will throw you a bone here if you ponder it a while.

A family cooked meal at the field.

When I was stationed in NC and I was starting to learn the CFOA,.. there was a guy that would come to each of the fields on the tourney circuit as well as the local days where we would practice.

The field had its usual snack bar and such,.. but he had something more.

For something like $8 dollars, you could get an ear of corn, a plate of pulled pork or turkey smuthered in bar-b- sause or gravy, a biscut, and beans.

It was a plate of home cooked HOT food on a day of paintball,... there was no one that didnt take the meal.

The field sold the drinks, but offered a discount if you bought a plate from the "Pork Man" (thats what we called him)

Later on, the field put up a pre-registration for the weekend to book in advance (back then, not too many people were doing it) and they offered a coupon for a dollar off the plate if you pre-paid for registration.

Now think about that for the field. If the field fee is $10, thats $9 comming back to them, plus a DEFINATE head count MINIMUM for the day. So they know at the MINIMUM what they need for staff. The "Pork Man" gets his $1 dollar back (obviously because it helped the field owner) and he still gets the sale for food. The field onwer actually MAKES money if the player doesnt show. And we all know that we are on tight budgets some times so if we pre-pay,.. we will show (most of the time). And so what if the player doesnt show and they pre-pay? The field owner can cover the staffing by the $9 he made for a player that didnt show.

Just an idea. I noticed you had some "texan" in your user name, and on my last trip to Grapevine, I had some AWESOME food there. Might be something very simple you can do with one other person and some propane burners with deep pots.

~ P8nt

**CKY_Alliance** · 11-11-2007, 11:15 PM

Only problem I can see with classics valves is they chop pretty bad..unless you get lvl 10's in all of them...but then you have to tune them..which wouldn't be so bad but..ehh..

Why not like PMR's or something...or quest they are what 400 now? When I bought my mag that's about what it cost for a classic (well to get it so it was worth shooting)..actually I see you plan on buying used? 100-150, unless they have had a huge price drop..

**Scott Hudnall** · 11-12-2007, 06:35 PM

best buy right now on used guns that could work as an upgrade, as you are talking about, would be a used Impulse. Can find 'em cheap on ebay, still find plenty of parts/kits for servicing them, etc. And, a good quality gun to boot. not as good quality as a 'mag....but I think you are asking for service nigthmares with the pneumag option. Also, the impy runs perfectly fine on CO2.

But, why not just offer the classic automag as an upgrade over the GT and Tippmans?

**drg** · 11-12-2007, 07:38 PM

While I understand the enthusiasm generated by this question on -- go figure -- a Mag board, I would have to say that this is actually not a real good idea. Several reasons:

1. Do inielliframed/decent pneu-able-framed mags really go for $100-150?
2. "Hey this gun leaks!" Pneumags hiss a lot even when working properly.
3. You'll want level 10 on any pneumag, let alone a rental. Add $50 minimum for that.
4. CO2 won't really work well at the high ROFs achievable with the pneumags. This is going to be a problem with the classic valve, i believe.
5. LPR can come unset/overpressurized/othewise messed with by renter.
6. Trigger setting - pneumags work up to maximum capability when the trigger is set very short. However this makes the safety useless and makes the gun VERY toughy. When you lengthen the pull enough to use the safety/make the trigger a little more rental friendly, you might as well just use ULT with that trouble trigger and save yourself the headache.
7. General complexity. The pneu setup on a pneumag is not all that trouble or tuning-free. At least compared to some of the simpler electros or blowbacks out there.

if the A5s were working for you in this role, I'd say go that route with better security.

**Ruler_Mark** · 11-12-2007, 07:58 PM

1. they wont hit the 16+ bps that flashy people want but they can gooo
2. "Hey this gun leaks!" Pneumags hiss a lot even when working properly. -- Oh well noobs dont even notice it most of the time anyway
3. You'll want level 10 on any pneumag, let alone a rental. Add $50 minimum for that-- just make the rigger pull long by not making the level as long or eliminating the lever
4. CO2 won't really work well at the high ROFs achievable with the pneumags. This is going to be a problem with the classic valve, i believe. -- not if they keep the guns ging slower
5. LPR can come unset/overpressurized/othewise messed with by renter. -- locktite please
6. Trigger setting - pneumags work up to maximum capability when the trigger is set very short. However this makes the safety useless and makes the gun VERY toughy. When you lengthen the pull enough to use the safety/make the trigger a little more rental friendly, you might as well just use ULT with that trouble trigger and save yourself the headache. -- get bleeder asa's as safety
7. General complexity. The pneu setup on a pneumag is not all that trouble or tuning-free. At least compared to some of the simpler electros or blowbacks out there. -- yes but you set it and forget it. I have seen many retals just suck

**jade_monkey07** · 11-12-2007, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by MedicDVG

Frankly I think its brilliant. Players are looking for speed, field owners are looking for revenue generators. Pnuemags can be the best of both worlds.

Think about it from a field owner's point of view -- no consumables to eat up your profit margain -- no batteries, no fried boards, ease of service and they throw paint as fast as the little goober can pull the trigger. Sure you can do all that with an UBER XP3200 space gun or one of the crop of **** from **** Parts... but here you have a true workhorse and money maker.

I think you may have something there.. just remove the field strip screws so people aren't walking off with your valves.

hell maybe have some premium rentals which is an vert ULE in a fancy color with an RT Pro valve or something.

Hell -- this forum is always pissing and moaning that there isn't enough exposure to automags and that AGD never did a very good job at marketing -- I think this may actually satisfy a need.

I like the idea. This could open up the world of mags to a whole demographic that heretofore has been untapped.

Way to think outside the box.

im with you on that one, my second gun is a minimag valved ule body with pnue grip...everyone that picks it up always asks "this is your second gun?!?!"

Great idea!

**drg** · 11-13-2007, 12:25 AM