Paintguns: Firearms vs. Toys

[Maghog]

So what are they? On many paintguns, it says, "this gun is not a toy", and still they get sold by the thousands to kids under 18. Incidents happen all over, drive by splattings, homeless people peltings, school scares and so on.
As responsible players, we've defended the game for what it is, and the equipment we use is just an instrument to play that game. What if your State decided that they wanted to classify paintball guns as firearms...what would it imply for the sport? What would change and would it make you rethink your involvement in the sport?

I live in a country now where paintball is heavily monitored, and constantly on the brink of being declared illegal. Most here think that it's a militant game, where people get to live out their war fantasies.I know different. Paintball is the ultimate strategy game for me, and that's why I love it so, not because I go out there and imagine I'm killing someone. I play by their rules here though, which means I don't play paintball anymore.

So if the State stepped in and said, it's time to regulate this, and we're going to make it harder for you to play at a place that has NOT been designated to do so, what would you say?
Dan@Triggernomics

[Chaos_Theory!]

They arent toys and they arent firearms but rather somethign in betweem, that seems obvious to me. Considering it either of the two seems obsurd to me.

[punkncat]

Well, the way that I feel kind of contradicts itself so to speak.
IMO no one under the age of 18 should even be able to play at a field, any field, without the accompanying adult. I am not even certain that people under 14 should be able to play at all. My son plays, he is 10 and has since he was 8, but under my strict supervision and only at specific venues.
This drop a kid off at the paintball daycare crap is out of hand.

On top of that, I feel like everyone who wants to play paintball should be required to take a gun safety course and also sign an agreement that states they will never use the marker is an unappropiate manner. That way if they get caught out doing stupid crap with one then they would pay a very hefty price, that they knew about in the first place. This also brings back up the no unsupervised kids under 18.

Does this mean I think that no underaged kid is responsible enough to play without the adult? No
However, no underaged kid is fully legally responsible for their own actions. The adult is, so the adult should be on hand and readily available.

I do not want to see markers legislated as firearms. That would bring down too much oversight from Big Brother. They do need more than is currently in place in my opinion though.

[Toll]

Your own private property : Knock yourself out.
Permission from the owner (written, in triplicate) then why not.

Walking around a public park shooting at eachother: No.


It really almost mirrors regular gun control laws, wherethe people who you are worried about don't really care bout the law anyway, so it stops them very little and only hinders the people who want to go through the process. There's a pretty heavy general misconception that paintball is entirely made up of people who refer to themselves as Delta Leader, paint their face and then go out and murder people. As for school scares, it's not the tool its the weilder. These kids would walk in with an airsoft gun, or something fashioned out of wood and black paint if they wanted to.

The day they want me to pay to register my viking is the day I say "this is stupid" and quit.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Well, the way that I feel kind of contradicts itself so to speak.
IMO no one under the age of 18 should even be able to play at a field, any field, without the accompanying adult. I am not even certain that people under 14 should be able to play at all. My son plays, he is 10 and has since he was 8, but under my strict supervision and only at specific venues.
This drop a kid off at the paintball daycare crap is out of hand.

On top of that, I feel like everyone who wants to play paintball should be required to take a gun safety course and also sign an agreement that states they will never use the marker is an unappropiate manner. That way if they get caught out doing stupid crap with one then they would pay a very hefty price, that they knew about in the first place. This also brings back up the no unsupervised kids under 18.

Does this mean I think that no underaged kid is responsible enough to play without the adult? No
However, no underaged kid is fully legally responsible for their own actions. The adult is, so the adult should be on hand and readily available.

I do not want to see markers legislated as firearms. That would bring down too much oversight from Big Brother. They do need more than is currently in place in my opinion though.

I couldnt disagree more. If you pput that much control over who plays the sport paintball would probably die out. Its good to have an adult around but your taking it WAY to far and not thinking everythign through. Sure your ideas have an upside but the downsides far outweigh them. I say as long as there are responsible adults around then age really shouldnt be of a concern.

The day they want me to pay to register my viking is the day I say "this is stupid" and quit.

Agreed

[psychowarden]

The day they want me to pay to register my viking is the day I say "this is stupid" and quit.

Agreed.

It's all about misconception as far as paintball goes. I have tried my hardest to spread the word to as many people as possible that paintballers don't consider ourselves soldiers, or warriors, or anything violent at all, we consider ourselves players, as in we are playing a game, nothing more than an advanced version of capture the flag. I have done this by giving a few dozen public speeches at schools around the state, and I just hope that those that I have talked to spread the word at well, and it turns into a snowball effect so to speak.

[punkncat]

I couldnt disagree more. If you pput that much control over who plays the sport paintball would probably die out. Its good to have an adult around but your taking it WAY to far and not thinking everythign through. Sure your ideas have an upside but the downsides far outweigh them. I say as long as there are responsible adults around then age really shouldnt be of a concern.



Agreed

You are right, there are downsides. But legally speaking so many of these kids should never have been dropped off in a public place unsupervised in the first place. I think a designated chaperone would be a viable alternative, but for every child at the field there needs to be some adult other than the field owner that you can point to and say "he is responsible for that kid".
I cannot say how many times I have been out reffing and have some kid get hurt, or pull some bonehead action, start a fight or whatever, and there is noone there to take action with.
Too often the parent pulls up, opens a door kicks the kid out and takes off to area unknown. We aren't talking about the next neighborhood over, or the park next door. This kid is not in some situation where he can walk across the block back to his house.
This is a dangerous sport made safe by the equipment and the common sense of the players , mostly adults, that the game was concieved by. We can see signs all around of what has happened to the orginal concept through letting youngsters take over and determine the path of the sport. If paintball is going to be saved, not only from itself, but from the untimate oversight of the government then something is going to have to be done to rein it in.

[Maghog]

Now you guys know why I don't play over here.

Imagine this, I am not allowed to fire my paintballgun on my own property here, and as a result, I don't have any equipment at all. It's just a hassle and a lot of money, and it's no fun.
I don't do anything but carve pieces of gun-looking-like aluminum now.

Other than that, it's over,
Dan

[Maghog]

Well, the way that I feel kind of contradicts itself so to speak.
IMO no one under the age of 18 should even be able to play at a field, any field, without the accompanying adult. I am not even certain that people under 14 should be able to play at all. My son plays, he is 10 and has since he was 8, but under my strict supervision and only at specific venues.
This drop a kid off at the paintball daycare crap is out of hand.

On top of that, I feel like everyone who wants to play paintball should be required to take a gun safety course and also sign an agreement that states they will never use the marker is an unappropiate manner. That way if they get caught out doing stupid crap with one then they would pay a very hefty price, that they knew about in the first place. This also brings back up the no unsupervised kids under 18.

Does this mean I think that no underaged kid is responsible enough to play without the adult? No
However, no underaged kid is fully legally responsible for their own actions. The adult is, so the adult should be on hand and readily available.

I do not want to see markers legislated as firearms. That would bring down too much oversight from Big Brother. They do need more than is currently in place in my opinion though.

I feel the same way about approaching my kids with paintball, and though they are a bit younger, they are learning to respect and understand it for what it is.
Dan

[Chaos_Theory!]

You are right, there are downsides. But legally speaking so many of these kids should never have been dropped off in a public place unsupervised in the first place. I think a designated chaperone would be a viable alternative, but for every child at the field there needs to be some adult other than the field owner that you can point to and say "he is responsible for that kid".
I cannot say how many times I have been out reffing and have some kid get hurt, or pull some bonehead action, start a fight or whatever, and there is noone there to take action with.
Too often the parent pulls up, opens a door kicks the kid out and takes off to area unknown. We aren't talking about the next neighborhood over, or the park next door. This kid is not in some situation where he can walk across the block back to his house.
This is a dangerous sport made safe by the equipment and the common sense of the players , mostly adults, that the game was concieved by. We can see signs all around of what has happened to the orginal concept through letting youngsters take over and determine the path of the sport. If paintball is going to be saved, not only from itself, but from the untimate oversight of the government then something is going to have to be done to rein it in.

The problem is thats not anywhere near a realistic way to look at things. I can see where your coming from but its just not gonna happen. It seems like your trying to fix problems that dont really exist. Your coming up with reasons and scenarios but honestly how often do you see those things as a problem (not just in your eyes, but an actual problem)?

[punkncat]

The problem is thats not anywhere near a realistic way to look at things. I can see where your coming from but its just not gonna happen. It seems like your trying to fix problems that dont really exist. Your coming up with reasons and scenarios but honestly how often do you see those things as a problem (not just in your eyes, but an actual problem)?

I am not sure that I read your question the right way. I will go with what I think you are asking me, in spite of my veering this a bit off the specific topic at hand.

Paintball is and has become a lot like the Lord of the Flies. You have a bunch of children who are trying to be self governing, and cannot and do not handle it. There is no question that almost all children act completly different when they are not in the presence of some adult figure. Especially in a situation where they know they way they are acting will not get back to the parent. There is no question that of this majority the behaviour is certainly not what we could call desirable. You get bad attitude, lack of respect and courtesy, unsportsmanlike conduct, a whole gammit of behaviour that the sport would be (and was) better without.
Now to tie that in with the topic at hand, this behaviour has a tendency to bleed over into other peoples perception of the game itself. It is the game as it has become, not as it was concieved.
So a good amount of the danger inherent to the sport, like overshooting, fights breaking out, cheating, etc. could be handled simply by these kids having some guidance and adult supervision. So if the children who are the mass of paintball players were put in check by the authority of a responsible adult on hand, the government would not have to do it for us, and make us all pay the consequences.

[Chaos_Theory!]

I am not sure that I read your question the right way. I will go with what I think you are asking me, in spite of my veering this a bit off the specific topic at hand.

Paintball is and has become a lot like the Lord of the Flies. You have a bunch of children who are trying to be self governing, and cannot and do not handle it. There is no question that almost all children act completly different when they are not in the presence of some adult figure. Especially in a situation where they know they way they are acting will not get back to the parent. There is no question that of this majority the behaviour is certainly not what we could call desirable. You get bad attitude, lack of respect and courtesy, unsportsmanlike conduct, a whole gammit of behaviour that the sport would be (and was) better without.
Now to tie that in with the topic at hand, this behaviour has a tendency to bleed over into other peoples perception of the game itself. It is the game as it has become, not as it was concieved.
So a good amount of the danger inherent to the sport, like overshooting, fights breaking out, cheating, etc. could be handled simply by these kids having some guidance and adult supervision. So if the children who are the mass of paintball players were put in check by the authority of a responsible adult on hand, the government would not have to do it for us, and make us all pay the consequences.

Again, i highly disagree. The kids who cause problems at fields in my experience would be like that regardless of whether or not a parent figure is around. A lot of times this comes from their parents having a similar attitude. Any of the problems you mentioned can easily be solved by warning said person and then kicking them off the field if they continue to cause problems. Not having a parent around wouldnt matter at all. It isnt rocket science and is in no way a hard thing to take care of. Also, i tend to see more problems with young adults then actual kids.

[Maghog]

Are you sure that you've seen these kids in action on the field? They dare each other and challenge each other to do stupid stuff all the time. You've been around long enough to see kids cower out on the field, but then in the parking lot they blast away at the chrono area without mercy. There's been plenty of close calls there.
I've played with 8-10 year olds, and it's always been under the supervision of a parent, with great results.

I would agree with you though too Chaos...I don't really feel like paintguns should be considered as either firearms nor toys, but rather something in between.

But what would that be?

[punkncat]

The kids who cause problems at fields in my experience would be like that regardless of whether or not a parent figure is around. A lot of times this comes from their parents having a similar attitude.

Now this is something we can both agree on. Very true that not all parents are a good influence and moral beacon. Not a whole lot can be done about this group, except as you suggested but to weed them out.

If that parent was not there, it would be impossible to know where that bad influence came from.

Your other point about young adults, I have to agree with as well to some degree. There are a lot of punks in that age group who are responsible for themselves and lack the maturity and intelligence to do the right thing with it.

[Chaos_Theory!]

maghog - I honestly have no idea what to classify them as.

punkncat - Im glad we agree on those points.