Is paintball dead?

[Indignant]

paintball isn't dying, your love for it is. there are still a million kids out there feeling the same thing you felt the first time you played on any given weekend, it just isn't there for you (or me) anymore.

admit it, when you started playing if you got lit up you'd shrug it off, play more and have a great time. now if you get lit up you go online and complain about how it used to be. it isn't how it used to be, it is how it is. if you don't enjoy it anymore you don't like the game, you liked it.

[Ninjeff]

paintball isn't dying, your love for it is. there are still a million kids out there feeling the same thing you felt the first time you played on any given weekend, it just isn't there for you (or me) anymore.

admit it, when you started playing if you got lit up you'd shrug it off, play more and have a great time. now if you get lit up you go online and complain about how it used to be. it isn't how it used to be, it is how it is. if you don't enjoy it anymore you don't like the game, you liked it.

Well, ok i dont exactly agree with you on all accounts. When i started i never got lit up like some kids get lit on the air ball fields of today. granted, i started in 97......but still. I think most good fields out there do a fine job of seperating the newbs form the the more advanced crowd. I dont think thats it per se'. I cant think of too many times ive seen a brand new rec player get rocked by some more advanced player. And the times i HAVE seen that, i said something to the player. But those times have been few, and far between.

Still, i think your first paragraph is well said indeed.

[Hgblues]

I totally agree that most of the problems stated are due to the Field Owners being incompetent. There are 2 fields in my area, both of which run 50 to 120 players each on most weekends, both which have strict safety rules (2 headgear violations and your day is done) neither allow ramping during rec play, and if some hotshot with a new gat thinks he's gonna go shoot up all the new kids that are there for the fun of the game, he'll get put in his place. Both fields support successful tournament caliber players, and well trained staff ref's.

Now, there have been several fields pop up over the years in this area, but only 2 stable enough to remain. And it's not because the push paint, it's because they make sure that the player that comes in with 50 bucks or so to spend for the day, gets the most out of his 50 bucks , enjoys his day, and cant wait to come back and do it again. Control and responsibility is DEFINITELY the field owner and staffs job. Don't let idiots run your field, or you'll be known as one.

As far as paint, I payed 49 bucks a case at a tourney this past weekend. 8 years ago at a scenario game in Orlando at Waynes World, I paid 90 bucks a case for dimpled up crap RPscherer. So, I dont buy the argument that paint prices shouldn't be so high. I do agree with the 10 bps cap in tourneys, but doubt it would ever happen. The 13.3 bps cap is much better than the 15.6 cap. Some say they cant tell the difference, I could tell a huge difference. In 8 prelim games in a 3 man event, I barely shot over 1 case of paint.

The tricky balance is, the more affordable paintball is, the more people try it and stay in it. The more expensive paintball gets, the higher profit margins go, but the fewer players can afford to stay in it. The key here? Without the player base, there is no paintball industry.

[Ninjeff]

I totally agree that most of the problems stated are due to the Field Owners being incompetent. There are 2 fields in my area, both of which run 50 to 120 players each on most weekends, both which have strict safety rules (2 headgear violations and your day is done) neither allow ramping during rec play, and if some hotshot with a new gat thinks he's gonna go shoot up all the new kids that are there for the fun of the game, he'll get put in his place. Both fields support successful tournament caliber players, and well trained staff ref's.

Now, there have been several fields pop up over the years in this area, but only 2 stable enough to remain. And it's not because the push paint, it's because they make sure that the player that comes in with 50 bucks or so to spend for the day, gets the most out of his 50 bucks , enjoys his day, and cant wait to come back and do it again. Control and responsibility is DEFINITELY the field owner and staffs job. Don't let idiots run your field, or you'll be known as one.

As far as paint, I payed 49 bucks a case at a tourney this past weekend. 8 years ago at a scenario game in Orlando at Waynes World, I paid 90 bucks a case for dimpled up crap RPscherer. So, I dont buy the argument that paint prices shouldn't be so high. I do agree with the 10 bps cap in tourneys, but doubt it would ever happen. The 13.3 bps cap is much better than the 15.6 cap. Some say they cant tell the difference, I could tell a huge difference. In 8 prelim games in a 3 man event, I barely shot over 1 case of paint.

The tricky balance is, the more affordable paintball is, the more people try it and stay in it. The more expensive paintball gets, the higher profit margins go, but the fewer players can afford to stay in it. The key here? Without the player base, there is no paintball industry.

1,000,000% Agreed with the bolded statement.
I know one of the best rules ive ever seen is the 20' rule we have at my field. No one is allowed to shoot anyone if they are within 20 feet of each other. Works wonders for rec games. its a genius rule thats pretty simple, and works wonders.

[Indignant]

you rarely see the kids with the Spyders or other WalMart setups they can afford quitting the sport. the ones that quit are the guys on PBN selling off 6 big dollar guns that occasionally get cycled. they aren't quitting the sport because they can't afford it, they are quitting the sport because they stopped having fun.

[Corbet]

paintball isn't dying, your love for it is. there are still a million kids out there feeling the same thing you felt the first time you played on any given weekend, it just isn't there for you (or me) anymore.

admit it, when you started playing if you got lit up you'd shrug it off, play more and have a great time. now if you get lit up you go online and complain about how it used to be. it isn't how it used to be, it is how it is. if you don't enjoy it anymore you don't like the game, you liked it.

I guess I'm jaded by the fact that the last time I played at a local field there was literally 10-12 teenagers, all sporting $1200+ paintball guns, spraying paint everywhere at 16+ BPS.

I've always been a fan of speedball over woods but not anymore. It's become less about skill and more about who can spend more on paint.

[Indignant]

and it seems more about excuses!

can their guns shoot through bunkers? can their guns aim themselves at you? can their guns run themselves down the field?

they can put more paint in the air than you, i guess. that's all it takes to win? you're trying to come up with reasons why you don't like the sport and not facing that it just isn't your thing anymore.

[rabidchihauhau]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but at the end there it sounds like your saying "the paint manu's will be more supportavie of a format which will reduce their costs"

If i was a paint company, I would want the pros to play the absoulely most spray and pray format possible. I would want players to be FORCED to carry 8+ pods a game. I would want them to be ramping to 20+bps. As the paint company I would not care about the dollar value of the pros usage, hell I will give them paint for free. I'd be more interested all the wannabes out there who emulate these pros and will dump paint like its a bad habbit just to be like them.....I only want 2 differences between the pros and the wannabes: 1. Wannabes hugely outnumber the pros 2. The wannabes are forced to pay retail for paint while pros can have it for free. Both of which are true. Plain and simple paint compaines are loving the e-gun race.

You're falling for the same false logic that they fall for every time.

A league that seeks mass-media attention is being presented for marketing purposes. You want to spend as little money as possible to get an effective and compelling advertising message across. The sport should give viewers the feeling that 'they can do that too'. Blasting tons of paint only serves to send the message 'I can't/don't want to do that'. If they go further and check the game costs out and compare it to what they saw, they become even more convinced that they can't afford to play.

A sports league for paintball should be nothing more than marquee advertising. In fact, at events, the games should be of secondary consideration to the selling and promotion of the sport at the trade show. If Tippmann is selling 'scenario' guns, the 'sport' should be doing things that support and promote the use of those guns...

On TV, the mere mention of 'professional league' confers that status upon the players and teams. How the game on the field is played is unimportant - except of course you want it to be exiting, interesting and approachable by the viewer.

If you educate everyone into believing that they have to shoot four cases a day in order to play effectively, all you are doing is INSURING that your game will ONLY appeal to folks with lots of money and/or your customers will only last for a short period of time. If you make the apex of the sport (pro) something that truly requires skill above and beyond the ordinary, you give everyone something to aspire to, with the added benefit that any version of paintball people play is 'legit', cause none of it is 'pro'.

In the meantime, the companies can better afford to support a league and players, and have the money to spend on promotion, rather than realizing that one to two skids per per team per practice session, all year long, is just not a sustainable economic model.

Flip it on its head. If providing ALL of the paint for an entire season of league play were actually approachable, don't you think the manufacturers would be falling all over themselves to be THAT paint company?

[rabidchihauhau]

paintball isn't dying, your love for it is. there are still a million kids out there feeling the same thing you felt the first time you played on any given weekend, it just isn't there for you (or me) anymore.

admit it, when you started playing if you got lit up you'd shrug it off, play more and have a great time. now if you get lit up you go online and complain about how it used to be. it isn't how it used to be, it is how it is. if you don't enjoy it anymore you don't like the game, you liked it.

LOL. when I first started playing there was no such thing as 'getting lit up'. There were mass surrenders - but I was never forced to surrender (just too good, I guess...)

I don't complain about how it used to be either. I simply point out that it WAS better back in the day - better players, more responsible companies, better fields and a better experience.

Lit up. LOL. That's SO paintball from the 90s...

[halB]

You're falling for the same false logic that they fall for every time.

A league that seeks mass-media attention is being presented for marketing purposes. You want to spend as little money as possible to get an effective and compelling advertising message across. The sport should give viewers the feeling that 'they can do that too'. Blasting tons of paint only serves to send the message 'I can't/don't want to do that'. If they go further and check the game costs out and compare it to what they saw, they become even more convinced that they can't afford to play.

A sports league for paintball should be nothing more than marquee advertising. In fact, at events, the games should be of secondary consideration to the selling and promotion of the sport at the trade show. If Tippmann is selling 'scenario' guns, the 'sport' should be doing things that support and promote the use of those guns...

On TV, the mere mention of 'professional league' confers that status upon the players and teams. How the game on the field is played is unimportant - except of course you want it to be exiting, interesting and approachable by the viewer.

If you educate everyone into believing that they have to shoot four cases a day in order to play effectively, all you are doing is INSURING that your game will ONLY appeal to folks with lots of money and/or your customers will only last for a short period of time. If you make the apex of the sport (pro) something that truly requires skill above and beyond the ordinary, you give everyone something to aspire to, with the added benefit that any version of paintball people play is 'legit', cause none of it is 'pro'.

In the meantime, the companies can better afford to support a league and players, and have the money to spend on promotion, rather than realizing that one to two skids per per team per practice session, all year long, is just not a sustainable economic model.

Flip it on its head. If providing ALL of the paint for an entire season of league play were actually approachable, don't you think the manufacturers would be falling all over themselves to be THAT paint company?

You sir are one smart cookie. You know the sport and you know business. All you're saying is "if you're a company that's going to advertise, then advertise in the most cost efficient way to get your message across." And all these jerks can think is "But the paint companies should be brainwashing us into shooting tons of cases!"

Advertising was invented in the 1800s to convince us to buy things we didn't need, to overconsume. Convincing anyone to play paintball is already convincing them to play a sport they don't need to play, and convincing them to overconsume. You can't then convince a person to OVER overconsume. Advertising, especially sponsorships, just aren't THAT effective.

Wouldn't it be grand if the tourney scene worked like a pyramid? The bottom division would be ramping/full auto. The next would be uncapped semi auto, followed by capped semi, followed by purely mechanical markers, and the top would be for pumpers. Logically, the more you take away someone's pretty toys and tools, the more they have to rely on skill and technique.

Actually, I think the top tier should only be allowed to play with VM-68s

[rabidchihauhau]

these messages were imparted to the industry time and again for over two decades. The essential message is: study other, similar industries that are successfull and then emulate them.

Nope, not gonna do it. We're paintball, we HAVE to reinvent the wheel cause we're special.

Look at any other professional sport. How do they do it? Do they have a pro league that 'anyone' can get into? No. Would anyone be watching the NFL and buying Packers Beer Stines if they could go play in the superbowl just by paying for the entry fee? No - because there's NOTHING SPECIAL about it. You don't need to dream or aspire, all you have to do is pull out the credit card.

Look at baseball. The road to the pros is long, arduous and selective; little league, high school ball, college ball, farm teams. maybe a try at the 'bigs' if you're lucky.

In the meantime: the kid goes through four or five gloves growing up, several sets of uniforms and cleats, multiple bats, league membership fees and, ultimately, they end up playing in a softball bar league. Once they leave home, Mom pulls the $24.95 player posters off the wall in the bedroom and uses the foam number 1 hand (9.95) to wash the car.

Who supports and underwrites those things? Major League Baseball. Why? So that you keep spending money on MLB stuff for your entire life. They're not trying to get you to go pro. And they don't ask you to spend your life's savings to become and stay a fan. Of course, if you WANT season box seats and a gold-plated ball, they'll sell you that too, but the minimal price of entry is a five dollar ticket to the local farm league games.

Think they make all their money off of season passes? Nope. They realize that the pro league is only the marquee advertising draw for a multi-billion dollar merchandising industry, and they've got everything in its proper place.

[BigEvil]

If you educate everyone into believing that they have to shoot four cases a day in order to play effectively, all you are doing is INSURING that your game will ONLY appeal to folks with lots of money and/or your customers will only last for a short period of time. If you make the apex of the sport (pro) something that truly requires skill above and beyond the ordinary, you give everyone something to aspire to, with the added benefit that any version of paintball people play is 'legit', cause none of it is 'pro'.

OMG we agree. (Checks outside for Armageddon) .

[rabidchihauhau]

armageddon outta here...

[Village_idiot]

There have been a lot of reasons listed in this thread for paintballs apparent decline. I believe there's a little bit of truth in every one.

In my opinion, everyone must share a bit of the blame. Society in general is proving itself incapable of supporting paintball as it existed in 80's and 90's. Society has told athletes from every discipline for a couple generations now that its ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught. You've got steroid use and corked bats in baseball and radio bugging in football for quick examples. The problem doesn't exist with only athletes either. People are no longer content to be second best. People are willing to claw, cheat, steal, and back stab to get that #1 spot and society encourages this. CEO's are no longer willing to invest in the people and time to create the best product in the market. Its much cheaper and faster to engineer a situation where customers no longer have a choice and litigate into the ground any company that tries to enter that market space. Yet this is the sort of behavior investors encourage with their investment $$$.

On top of this is the common view of paintball as a sport. I don't see paintball as a sport. I see it as a framework for a sport and every person has their own idea of what the rules and setting for this sport should be. Unfortunately, society is teaching us that if others don't share the same ideal, we should 'take our ball and go home' and start our own division, league, group, whatever. People are no longer willing to concede the small issues in order to remain a cohesive whole. These splinter groups delude themselves into thinking that their ideal is the true ideal for paintball and begin waging their 'holy war' on everyone who doesn't happen to share in their ideal.

Is paintball dead? No. But enjoying the game as it exists now takes a different frame of mind than it did in the past. You have to be able to enjoy watching a paintball break on an opponent and know that you bested him/her even if they don't leave the field. You have to expect to get hit with a few more paintballs than you did previously.

will paintball ever go back to the way it was? Probably not. Unless society as a whole is able to completely reverse directions this will never happen. The paintball community can reclaim a lot of what has been lost but it would take compromise from everyone. Spend a little extra to support the companies and organizations that make an investment in paintball as a whole, not just their own little piece of the pie. The best thing anyone can do though, is spend some time with young and the new players. Show them that there are good skills to learn in every environment and format. Show them how to take care of their equipment so their investment lasts. If they walk onto the field with an old stingray2 they picked up off ebay, don't laugh at them and alienate them. Show them how to care for the gun, how to use what could be considered weakness in the equipment to strengthen the player. Just make yourself available to those who could learn from you.

please forgive the long post. Even if you don't agree with everything i say, i hope everyone who reads this can find the truth in here. The future of paintball is todays newbies.

Long live paintball!

[halB]

Look at any other professional sport. How do they do it? Do they have a pro league that 'anyone' can get into? No. Would anyone be watching the NFL and buying Packers Beer Stines if they could go play in the superbowl just by paying for the entry fee? No - because there's NOTHING SPECIAL about it. You don't need to dream or aspire, all you have to do is pull out the credit card.

Ahhh good sir, your logic and intelligence is impeccable, but your history is a little rough.

You must understand the super bowl was a desperate attempt to increase stadium seat sales. In fact, back in the day, ANYBODY could play pro football. It was seen as scummy, underhanded, and not a nice sport. Pro football was BELOW college football, which was seen as THE sport of kings. The Grange was the first really really good college football star to go play pro ball, in the 1920s. You know all those "bowls"? They were all created in the depression to increase ticket sales.

But you ARE right in the end, and mayhaps you just didn't feel like posting that history lesson for the people. Pro football could have disappeared. It was on its way out. And the commissioners saved it. They made it what it is today, a respectable sport. If we could follow this model, and create a format that people can actually WATCH and would pay money to see, then there is a future, and there is hope.