Did AGD make prototypes of loading systems?

[questionful]

http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S006467473.pdf

So. . . were prototypes made? Are they still around? Info, pics, vids? New ideas?

I hope this starts an interesting conversation.

[grEnAlEins]

http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S006467473.pdf

So. . . were prototypes made? Are they still around? Info, pics, vids? New ideas?

I hope this starts an interesting conversation.

Isn't that the warp feed ?

I use one to this day. It rocks!

[questionful]

One of them is, there are several.

[MANN]

the one on the RT classic looks intersting.

[cyrus-the-virus]

I'd like to know more about the backpack one, that design does not look like it would work too well.

[AGD]

There were backpack loaders that were made from the warp feed. They worked really well and we displayed the proto at tournaments. No one was even remotely interested.

We had a lot of good ideas for loading systems but the warp never really took off and was put down by the general community. That ended our efforts on loaders, so you keep living with the blimp.

AGD

[Sumthinwicked]

tk as to the backpack ones if they were semi useable and reasonably priced as to not being like 500 per one i know of many people who have thought about the backpack style of a loader usefull . i think they would be good for tanks maybe a market in the 4000 round hopper ? tank kit ? maybe i can commission one made ? show it off at skrimish i would love to talk to you about a good loading system for say 2 emags /hyperframed mags pnuemags mounted to my tank if your interested pm me and im a serious person i bought a 88 samurai and i have dumped 3000 into it making it into my drivable paintball tank LOL fix rig first mount guns later LOL but ill need a loader soon so i mise well start designing it i have a few ideas but ur smarter than me

[skipdogg]

Just a guess, but marketing backpack loaders to tournament players is missing the target. Backpack loaders = scenario/woods ball players.

[KevinA]

tk as to the backpack ones if they were semi useable and reasonably priced as to not being like 500 per one i know of many people who have thought about the backpack style of a loader usefull . i think they would be good for tanks maybe a market in the 4000 round hopper ? tank kit ? maybe i can commission one made ? show it off at skrimish i would love to talk to you about a good loading system for say 2 emags /hyperframed mags pnuemags mounted to my tank if your interested pm me and im a serious person i bought a 88 samurai and i have dumped 3000 into it making it into my drivable paintball tank LOL fix rig first mount guns later LOL but ill need a loader soon so i mise well start designing it i have a few ideas but ur smarter than me

I'd like to see pictures of that finished product.

[rabidchihauhau]

Tom,

you and I had lot's of discussions about the Warp, didn't we?

There are two early warp 'protos' at Pro-Team; one is a machinable wax mockup of the body, the other is a solid (black) body form made from some plastic other than what was finally used to mold the shells. The black body can accept (early) components and worked at one point. We used it to test hoses (so many different kinds of hoses...)

I am POSITIVE that Forest will not be interested in giving up either prototype - although he might be persuaded to take pics.

Now, speaking from the perspective of a tournament player who used a level 7 automag in serious tournament play up through 1997/1998 season, and speaking as someone who got a very early look at the Warp and had an opportunity to play with it and offer suggestions, here's some of the observations I offered to Tom at the time:

1. I was fully cognizant of the design intentions but felt, from my read of the market, that a 'sidecar' configuration was not going to be accepted by the tournament crowd. I strongly urged AGD to look into adapting it for an 'in-line' configuration.

I readily admit that this has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with perception. Don't forget, these are the same people who rejected the Vector because the relief valve hissed all the time...

2. Had tournaments gone in the direction of the USPL format, there is no doubt in my mind that the Warp would be on the market today. Paul Bollenbach (Jax Warriors) used one at Paintfest and dominated over the top of the bunkers (they were all laydowns), because his profile was so much lower than everyone else's.

3. I also felt that backpacks were not the way to go - for either market. Three reasons: first, someone came up with one a few years ealier and it wasn't well-received. Second, the tournament crowd had essentially just rejected backbottle remote systems (hard points on the back, gun manueverability) and third - reloading. The biggest issue is, you can't really switch hands easily and, your front-to-back profile is now twice as wide.

Again, all perceptual issues, but I like to think that I (did) have my finger on the pulse of that perception (as stupid, ignorant, biased, politicized and unreasonable as it often was).

I believe that a warp that incorporates a 'loader' (and I think I know why it doesn't) could stand a chance and I believe that a gun that incorporates a warp (perhaps in front of the trigger guard, under the barrel) could be successful.

For those who are interested, I did come up with one marginally successful mounting system for the warp.

It requires the manufacturing of a bracket looking something like a lazy, stretched and backwards 'Z'.

the upper portion mounts below the grip. the lower portion mounts to the top of the warp and has a hole cut in it for the hose adapter to fit through.

You need to move your tank to a front mounted position (like some of the Brits used to do), and the warp-with-loader essentially acts like a shoulder stock.

With the right length of bracket, the gun remains well-balanced, and everything is 'in-line', with the extra 'height' positioned such that it remains below your cover when in firing position.

(I used alumnium bar for the bracket. the only issue was drilling the feed hole. I didn't pursue this design because I also felt that the front-mounted bottle would be perceived as a 'no-no' by the in crowd.)

[AGD]

Yes Steve you were right. I didn't (and still don't) understand the post 1995 market.

We did have a design that was centered under the barrel. The problem was we would have to build the gun and loader together and you would have to buy them as a set. We thought that the Warp was the better way to go since it could be configured to your liking and added to your current setup. Our thinking was that once we got you hooked on the idea we could make a second gen integrated product.

AGD

[custar]

IMHO, things have indeed changed in the marker, at least recently. The scenario segment is more viable than it has been and perhaps more viable overall than the speedball segment. A group of us at D-Day really looked into warp feeds in backpacks for scenario play. It seemed like the warp feed had difficulty feeding through more than ~ 18", so we scrapped the idea. We had more success in feeding our linked If a backpack loader could be made to work effectively, there would be a market for it in the scenario field. I couldn't see a backpack being viable in the tournament community, mostly because it would be more difficult to change the marker between the player's hands. The pods work alright since they can be reloaded between games. On the other hand, in scenario play the game may last from two to eight hours. It would be an acceptable trade off to keep the marker in one hand or the other in order to increase the amount of paint that could be carried effectively and efficiently while on the field.

That said, a mount of a hose feeder directly under the barrel would be an acceptable alternative. I like my Qloader, but it is limited to 100 rounds per pod. A loader that mounted similar to a Qloader but held 200 rounds or so, it would sell. Keeping that blimp of a hopper off the top of the marker would be a significant advantage.

custar

[rabidchihauhau]

Custar,

in the scenarios I've played in (admittedly few and far between) the need to switch hands was just as important as on the tournament field. Losing that ability would be too much of a detriment.

Carrying all that weight would be as well. Tactically, I think it would be more effective to stick with the current systems and, if necessary, have one player carrying a large amount of paint for the group/squad/whatever.

Paintball, regardless of format, remains too fluid to justify weighing yourself down. I'd rather have two fast guys with just a couple of balls in a key/threatening position than a whole line of weighted down players too far away from the action...

"He who gets there fustest with the mostest..."

[rabidchihauhau]

Tom,

dare I suggest that understanding this market is relatively simple?

Think of the most idiotic thing you can think of, dumb it down from there, stick a high price tag on it and then pay off the folks at a certain website. Oh, I forgot: stick an offensive name on the product too...

[halB]

Why is there an issue with switching hands? If the hose goes up over the top and on your shoulder, not only do you get a sexy parrot there, you also get a neck protector (on one side) that allows you to switch hands.