A "note" about overshooting

[punkncat]

So an issue came up this weekend about a previous weekends game that I did not attend. One of the players on our "B" team overshot another player by his opinion.

Now here was the deal. The other player in a previous game had gone and bunkered the team players kid. He is 11 and is on the field playing. That in itself means that he is willing to put himself to the same risk as anyone else. The "other kid" did a run by and shot him with a few balls up close. I personally would not have done it, but hey it happens.
So then the father comes in next game and pulls a run-by on "other kid" and shoots him in the back a few times. He gets up screaming, unfair, overshooting, etc. etc.

So I guess that it was ok for him to run by and shoot some little kid a few times in the back, but when it was done to him, it is suddenly overshooting?

I kind of have to laugh about it. Should we all wear a big sign that has a number for the amount of balls it will take for us to start whining?

I kind of feel like in open play in most situations and with the markers out today that three or four balls are pretty much to be expected. In a tourney I can expect to be hit many more times than that up to the point I get behind the dead box.
What about that point that I am doing my dead walk to the side of the field or to the dead box. Am I supposed to be mad at those players for shooting me when I am "out" ?

Where do we make this decision? Is the little kid who is shooting a PM6 immune from the exact same medicine that he would gladly dole out to another player?
How about the guy on field with a pump. Should we adjust our ROF just beacuse he can only shoot us with one or two?

Or do we as players accept that when we walk on todays field that we may just get mowed, and if we don't like getting overshot that we might find another sport to play?

[dre1919]

In my opinion, overshooting is the fault of the industry. If the game had never had the technology arms race to increase BPS over the years (which is to sell more paint), then we wouldn't have this problem. Funny thing was, in 1995 when we were shooting Stingrays and pump guns in the woods we didn't have an "overshooting" problem (unless "overshooting" was the way someone described missing someone's head). The industry has led us to guns with 28-40 BPS cycling, which is nothing anyone would ever need, to sell more paint. Do we really need that? Have we ever? I've been to tournaments (and played in them) where the back line guys are standing there for ten minutes doing nothing but hosing paint. I realize the point of this is to keep opponents down whilst the front men move and gain angles, but this is really lame. Not to mention, dangerous. Who wants to get overshot 10-12 times because someone cannot control how fast they are pulling the trigger?

I walked away from the arms race and began using my Angel (before I sold it) to play with 500 balls for the day and was by far happier for it. If I couldn't get the guy, instead of hosing paint at his bunker I actually (crazy enough) MOVED and utilized other skills at my disposal instead of blasting through a case of paint for one kill. Did I get him? Some times. Other times I got shot out. What I DIDN'T do was waste $200 on paint for one days play. In my opinion, overshooting should be taken out of the game by guns and fields having stern caps to what BPS can be used. The people as consumers need to step up and say "Look, it's great you built this machine that can cycle so fast and spit out all this paint. Good for you. I however do not want to get overshot by it so thanks, but no thanks." It's not going to happen because the way of all things is "bigger, better, faster, stronger"...but it's a nice thought.

I think if you as a player are concerned about overshooting then you do one of two things. You either play in games, on fields, or in gun classes that assure no overshooting (like stock class) or when you get overshot the next game out you light that individual up with zero remorse. Sometimes lessons are learned the hard way, and he might think twice before bonus balling the hell out of an eleven year old (or anyone else for that matter).

-dre1919

[KevinA]

I agree, if he can't take it, then don't do it. Everyone just needs to play with a Mag...

[Empyreal Rogue]

This is how we define overshooting:

Not being overshot: Whack, whack, whack, whack, whack. I'm out.

Being overshot: Whack. I'm out. Whack.

[angrysasquatch]

It happens, suck it up. Really, even with a mech you can overshoot when coming around a bunker like that. If I'm doing that, and trying to move up, I want to make damn sure that guy is out, as it would seriously undermine the position I'm about to take. In that situation, I won't really mind putting a couple extra balls on him just to be sure, if he doesn't make it clear that he acknowledges he is hit. I don't want to be out because the balls I shot while running didn't end up hitting him.

My field has a good way of keeping people from ramping and such. They've realized that there isn't really any feasible way they can know if you're ramping/fa/highly reactive. So they just tell you to slow it down, plain and simple. They know that keeping 5 newbies happy and not feeling useless because of their "meager" 5 bps has much more profit than keeping that guy who thinks walkon is just another name for tourney shooting excessively.

[Spider-TW]

I would have to say there is more opportunity for one-on-one overshooting as well as a younger average age of players today, but the bps race did not create overshooting.

As Empyreal Rogue pointed out, when playing pumps we would identify those individuals that refused to leave the field and as a group send extra encouragement to them.

Over years of making runs during final battles with paint everywhere, my worst painting ever was a woodsball tournament practice game when I ran into a train of eight players with phantoms at eight to twenty feet. They were in a creek bed and I was up top. Each one only hit me twice before I could get my hands up and not one shot landed on a piece of gear.

I knew that it wasn't (highly) intentional, and I think intent has a lot to do with how upset people could or should get when overshot. Having younger players doesn't help that on either end, on average. New players will always feel that way when they get lit up. How it's handled decides how much of an 'event' it is.

[rifleman wi]

its paintball, you get hit, it hurts, deal with it. sure you get pissed, but dont be a tool about it. i know i get pissed when i stand up after i get shot, and 10 more hit me on the way.. but its all in the game. theres to many pansies playing now..

[Spider-TW]

its paintball, you get hit, it hurts, deal with it. sure you get pissed, but dont be a tool about it. i know i get pissed when i stand up after i get shot, and 10 more hit me on the way.. but its all in the game. theres to many pansies playing now..

But if you can help a new player deal with it and not take it personally, it will really help them enjoy the game and often make them a much better player because it eliminates a lot of fear. That one thing holds a lot players back.

[rifleman wi]

But if you can help a new player deal with it and not take it personally, it will really help them enjoy the game and often make them a much better player because it eliminates a lot of fear. That one thing holds a lot players back.

exactly, i got over shot a few times by newer players and after a few minutes when they came off the field i told them good job or good shot, stuff like that to boost them up. but on the other hand you have the cocky 12 year olds with moms credit card with all new gear that do it to be a prick, them im not as nice to...

[Ruler_Mark]

I only get mad when I'm overshot to the mask/head/neck or the gun cause its a pain to clean

[Spider-TW]

I only get mad when I'm overshot to the mask/head/neck or the gun cause its a pain to clean

I have a team mate that would rather you shoot him in the head than his marker for that reason.

[rifleman wi]

I have a team mate that would rather you shoot him in the head than his marker for that reason.

haha, thats awesome

[halB]

Once the guy puts his gun up, or yells, you better stop. More than one ball after that IS overshooting.

It's just like grappling. All participants go into the event knowing they are undertaking some risks. However, every player tries to mitigate these risks. So, when your opponent taps, even though you are technically playing against him, you immediately release and help your opponent out, because you don't want to murder the man.

If you keep shooting even after the guy has yelled OR put his gun up, then you are a prick.

[dre1919]

...but the bps race did not create overshooting.

How do you figure? So, by this rationale, you're saying that I had just as much of a chance to be overshot when I bunkered someone using a Phantom pump gun as I do now with someone using a fully tricked out Timmy? Um, yeah...somehow, I just don't buy that. My point was, the BPS escalation led to more people being overshot no matter where they are on the field. People cranking their rate of fire up on a gun capable of full auto or ramping modes in the 40 bps range are going to shoot more paint than a person firing a stock classic Mag. Sorry, that's a technological fact. Now, the person still has to be pulling the trigger so the device isn't the only thing to blame...it's still the player (and to a lesser extent, the type of game being played). But to say that faster guns hasn't created, or at least heavily contributed to more overshooting through the years is, IMHO, is ludicrous.

[usagi_tetsu]

My outlaw group has the Rule of Five - if you have to shout "OUT!" more than 5 times because the person at the other end is just too much into wailing on the trigger, you automatically resurrect back into the game right where you're standing at. And it wasn't that we as a group were having trigger-control issues, we just wanted to set out a rule to keep it in check before it became an issue. Well, that and some of us had seen that type of behavior in other venues, and weren't about to put up with it anywhere else.

The cool thing I've seen recently was one of my local fields outlawed all force-fed and agitated hoppers (basically, anything that takes a battery, and includes Q-Loaders and Tippmann Cyclone feeds) on their rec-ball fields. Now, they allow the high-falutin' feeders on their speedball fields, just not in the rec area. They discussed at length over on MCB, make your own decision on how well that's going to go over, but I figure it's a pretty effective bit of business practice to keep the newbies a little safer than usual.