Illegal Aliens Get Ready for Some Paintball !

[Beemer]

Get it back on topic so it dont get locked.

Post 12

Is an FN303 considered a PaintBall Gun? Hmmm, Not less then lethal but less lethal.

Here's an article in the local paper.

Paintball guns effective weapons in BP's arsenal
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/236272

Good link Peeko


"The Border Patrol has about 1,000 of the paintball guns, which have been in the hands of agents since October. The gun, known as the FN303, is produced by a Belgian company, and it replaced a less effective paintball gun that was used for three or four years in Nogales, Ariz., Rivera said."

What was the less effective gun they used???

[going_home]

Fn303

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Interesting looking .

[DevilMan]

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Interesting looking .

Alright... So they "develop" a device that can shoot a finned plastic capsule "88 Meters/Second" And it is accurate and effective up to 100 meters.

YET a PAINTBALL which travels at 300FPS can only go ~15 meters effectively....

hmmmmm..... I'll take 200!!!! Cause then I'll be able to arm my wholeeeeeee team with a marker that can shoot 100 meters and hit a torso sized target and with one shot neutralize the hostile and still be shooting well UNDER field regulated FPS limits.

Another thing I find HIGHLY interesting is this... Why the use of .68 caliber??? Is that a magic number now on what is the proper size for aerodynamics?? They say,

It is not the adaptation of a game : it is a real system developed with seriousness and fullfilling all the requirements of a weapon.

But yet they use .68 as their caliber of choice.

Another FOS statement...

Now they can defy physics.

88M/S is ~ 264FPS.... And to think... people spend GOVERNMENT money on these things and they are no better and FAR more expensive than a MAG, Tippman, Spyder, etc.

WOW!!! Talk about a crapload of snake oil on that site.

Talk about Necromancy....

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187442&page=1&pp=30

They just better hope BG don't find out about em...

DM

[Bulletsponge]

I know its off target but is anyone eles seeing the links above this thread about joining the boarder patrol. I kind off think its funny realy I was going to join the boarder patrol I mean you are going to give me a bad @ss bronco or some fast ATV to hunt down pepole down with Its like a big game of hide and go seek but I get NVGs. Then I looked in to it and did not like some of the things they did.
good advertizing

[dahoeb]

Back in July of '07 I was fortunate enough to train for a couple days with the border patrol out near Yuma, AZ, and they demonstrated some of their paintball equipment on us.

They were using the Pro-lites at the time but got their very first FN, it wasn't even taken out of the box yet, but they loved that thing and couldn't wait to use it. I'm guessing that they were going to put it through testing and trials or something before the official contract was actually signed off....anyways They also demonstrated the pepperballs on us, and threw just one of them against the wall in the classroom and within about 2 minutes all 15 of us coughing and tearing up, so I can imagine what 1 hopper could do to a crowd, even if it is outdoors.

The border patrol agents I got to meet and talk with were great guys, a really professional organization. It ticks me off that the government treats them like the red headed step child most of the time and deserve any tool they can get their hands on to help them. Right now they're in one of those situations you see in cartoons, with the character and his bucket trying to save the sinking ship.

[Beemer]

Back in July of '07 I was fortunate enough to train for a couple days with the border patrol out near Yuma, AZ, and they demonstrated some of their paintball equipment on us.

They were using the Pro-lites at the time but got their very first FN, it wasn't even taken out of the box yet, but they loved that thing and couldn't wait to use it.

If this is true, then would it be safe to say that the pro-lite was the less effective paintball gun they were using or were they using others also??????

[Beemer]

Alright... So they "develop" a device that can shoot a finned plastic capsule "88 Meters/Second" And it is accurate and effective up to 100 meters.

YET a PAINTBALL which travels at 300FPS can only go ~15 meters effectively....

hmmmmm..... I'll take 200!!!! Cause then I'll be able to arm my wholeeeeeee team with a marker that can shoot 100 meters and hit a torso sized target and with one shot neutralize the hostile and still be shooting well UNDER field regulated FPS limits.

Another thing I find HIGHLY interesting is this... Why the use of .68 caliber??? Is that a magic number now on what is the proper size for aerodynamics?? They say, But yet they use .68 as their caliber of choice.

Another FOS statement...



Now they can defy physics.

88M/S is ~ 264FPS.... And to think... people spend GOVERNMENT money on these things and they are no better and FAR more expensive than a MAG, Tippman, Spyder, etc.

WOW!!! Talk about a crapload of snake oil on that site.

Talk about Necromancy....

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187442&page=1&pp=30

They just better hope BG don't find out about em...

DM

Well you missed a few things here. First I suck at math, so help me out if I am wrong. Eighty eighty meters a second equils two hundred eighty eighty point seven feet per second, rounded off.

They say muzzle velocity is 85-91 m/s. Lets go max 91 on this, that is 298.5 feet per second, rounded off.

The average weight of todays paitball is three grams or so. ASTM says MAX weight not to exceed 3.5 grams at 300fps to be SAFE.[at a given distance] So I want my balls to weigh 3.5grams[max] at 300fps for BEST results. Unless you shoot tourny and CHEAT and use balls that weigh more which I would think they probably do.

So lets just call it 300fps for the FN303.[rounded up] Now look at the weight of the 303 projectile. Holy crap a wopping 8.5 g at 18mm which is slightly over 68 cal. That is over twice the weight, plus 1.5 grams to be exact of a regular paintball at ASTM standards at 300FPS

Oh just so ya know the valve in the 303 was designed by AGD and the rounds by Perfect Circle. The valve is similar or close to the 68 classic AGD valve. Where is MusicMan with pics when you need him??

LOL, I dont see no snake oil bit you did make me use the dictionary on Necromancy.

[babyface]

They're just going to wipe anyways.

reballs baby! then they cant wipe.

ive had my share of illegal aliens. cant take it anymore. i have to press 1 to continue in english. and they think they own the road.

[AirAssault]

Ohhhh poo, its Airassault's turn!

Yes left leaning AA is against Illegal/criminal alliens! I say pepper the heck out of them.... double fence mine things is also a great idea.... If Juan Lopez can come accross the border illegally so can Omar Binladen. I know this sounds VERY VERY extreme but we should treat any person caught coming into this country from Mexico or Canada or where ever as a terrorist, plain and simple. We have no clue what they are coming here to do so we need to assume it is to do us harm. Also, screw paintballs, rubber bullets will be much better. Put up some of those riot claymores like those idiots on Jackass stood in front of, make it very unpleasant for them to try and cross over illegally. Now, I know why people, esp from Mexico are coming here, and to tell the truth if I was in the same boat I prob would try too..... that however does not change the fact that they are breaking our laws and deserve to be treated as any other criminal. Also, screw this multiple deportation deal... you are here illegally, you break the law, you get deported. Come back and break another law, life in jail... see if that lowers the numbers.

[rabidchihauhau]

they use 68 caliber because it was developed based on 68 caliber technology and the manufacturing process for that caliber is in place and because they need the weight in the projectile to get the extra range.

they are more accurate because of the fin stabilized round

some folks at AGD and PTP were involved in prototyping that thing

***

you can't fight economic conditions with a paintball gun - its the wrong weapon.

twin 50s and bazookas aren't going to be any more effective;

[DevilMan]

Well you missed a few things here. First I suck at math, so help me out if I am wrong. Eighty eighty* meters a second equils** two hundred eighty eighty* point seven feet per second, rounded off.
*No Y
** A not I
If you will notice the ~ symbol in between the 88M/S~264FPS it means APPROXIMATELY... A meter is not EXACTLY 3 FEET. That's what I did on the math... 88 X 3. That's how I got the 264 and why I put the ~ in the equation. But thank you for actually getting the specifics.

They say muzzle velocity is 85-91 m/s. Lets go max 91 on this, that is 298.5 feet per second, rounded off.

Okay, I'm with ya...

The average weight of todays pai^tball* is three grams or so. ASTM says MAX weight not to exceed 3.5 grams at 300fps to be SAFE.[at a given distance] So I want my balls to weigh 3.5grams[max] at 300fps for BEST results. Unless you shoot tourn^y** and CHEAT and use balls that weigh more which I would think they probably do.

*Missed an N
**Missed an E

How do you measure weight with speed??? Can you tell how much a car weighs by how fast it's going??
At a given distance??? What is that number?? And I still don't see how they measure weight of a ball by how fast it goes. NOW if you want to split hairs and get into the measurement of the force of impact/kinetic force of a 3.5 gram gelatin ball going 300FPS 20 feet down range from the muzzle of the gun then go for it... but I'm not being that analytical and really don't care and so I'll concede that point...

How do you figure that they can get balls that weigh more than 3.5 grams at will? Wouldn't you think that the ball companies would be held responsible for producing balls that are outside of those specifications? Of course I guess it's hard to get sued for an injury resulting from an overweight ball when it's contents got splattered everywhere.

So lets just call it 300fps for the FN303.[rounded up] Now look at the weight of the 303 projectile. Holy crap a wopping 8.5 g at 18mm which is slightly over 68 cal. That is over twice the weight, plus 1.5 grams to be exact of a regular paintball at ASTM standards at 300FPS

I didn't call it .68 caliber... They did.... It's on their site listed as .68 and then also they do mention the 18mm. Same same....

And I have to say that you are INCORRECT in your assumption that just because it weighs twice+some of a regular PB don't mean that it can still carry that far as shown here which was copied from their site

*1. The FN303 has an effective range of 0 to 50 m - more than triple the range of the pepper ball
*2. The FN303 can also be used for area saturation with PAVA (pelargonic acid anillylamid) powder from a distance of up to 100 m.

Meaning that they are counting the DELIVERY of the pepper spray out to 100M as being effective. And they are in turn saying that no other delivery system on the market can claim that, though we all know that if you stood in the right spot with the wind the right direction and the gods smiling upon your face you can lob a pepper/paint ball just as far. Yes it may be heavier and can inherently go farther in essence, but I still think it's a bit of a reach.

Oh just so ya know the valve in the 303 was designed by AGD and the rounds by Perfect Circle. The valve is similar or close to the 68 classic AGD valve. Where is MusicMan with pics when you need him??

I didn't see much of a mention of Perfect Circle in discussion of the rounds. I know that PC is/was AGD and I know that at one time they/he was producing the super thin plastic shelled pepper type ammo for LE use. I didn't realize that he had refined it to a PACMAN ghost shaped projectile. And even so it still does not take away from the fact that they state on their site where I quoted them with this one

LOL, I dont see no snake oil bit you did make me use the dictionary on Necromancy.

So those statements to me register as wishful thinking and salesman spewage. And I'd be willing to bet ya some money that I could stand 100m from you down here at TAG in Hollister, CA and you could put 15 rounds downrange at me and I'm betting it's not going to have a real big effect on me. And this isn't some bravado statement. It's simply the open air with a slight breeze all you have to do is hold your breath and move out of the way, or just let the breeze pull it away.

They talk about it being EFFECTIVE that far out. Okay... I know there are some folks with arms on em... but come on??? Do you know many that can chuck a rock 100m???

And lastly.... I don't follow the logic of responding to deadly force with less than deadly force. To me it's just as life threatening. And if you wish to endanger me then I will endanger you. It may come to a gun fight, and I may lose but it won't be because I was forced to bring a knife.

You said to correct ya if you were wrong... I'm just pokin Beem...

DM

[pyrodragon]

they use 68 caliber because it was developed based on 68 caliber technology and the manufacturing process for that caliber is in place and because they need the weight in the projectile to get the extra range.

they are more accurate because of the fin stabilized round

some folks at AGD and PTP were involved in prototyping that thing

***

you can't fight economic conditions with a paintball gun - its the wrong weapon.

twin 50s and bazookas aren't going to be any more effective;

as far as the FN303 goes, yes Tom was invovled in designing it.the internals are much like that of the automags. there is a post about it here in the forums.

[AGD]

Pro Team was the original company working on the gun. They made the first prototypes that had a rotating loading tube assembly that could hold several different types of paintballs. Pro Team used our stock valves from the beginning and the gun shot round paintballs of normal weight.

The military kept upping the requirements and thats how we took over the project. We had to develop a more accurate projectile which lead to the heavier fin stablilized round. From there we had to develop a gun to fire them and by that time they didn't care about multiple types of rounds.

The original protos are still the coolest looking paintball guns ever.

AGD

[dahoeb]

If this is true, then would it be safe to say that the pro-lite was the less effective paintball gun they were using or were they using others also??????

In their armory, the only paintball guns I remember seeing were a couple of pro-lites and the single boxed FN. Since they did buy the far more expensive FN, they must be thinking they'll get something out of it that the prolite doesn't deliver...(although they didn't share any complaints about the pro-lite to us)

[Bagheera]

I've never had a problem with the mods before, but twice I've posted non-inflammatory, historic examples that have been deleted here, including examples from my own family.

I find it interesting that posts equating illegals or Mexicans with terrorists are tolerated, but a rundown of my family history and their length of residence on these lands are not tolerated.

What gives?