High Speed Video Ball Dropping Into Breach

[AGD]

AO,

As you know we have recently been doing extensive research into ball breakage and what is happening in the breach of a paintgun. One of the questions floating around in Deep Blue right now is how long it takes to get a ball into the breach using gravity and a vertical feed.

Below I have attached a 1.6 meg AVI file showing the ball droping into an Autococker breach with 3 balls stacked on top of it. This is a 4 ball stack and would be equivalent to what you would get in the HALO. This Cocker was a side feed so I tilted the feed tube upright. There was no air blast just the bolt moving back. You can see the bolt finish it's stroke when the body of the gun recoils. This gun was bolted to a large camera tripod. Count for yourself how long it takes for the drop. We also tried single balls and it took even longer. That's why you often chop the last ball.

AGD

https://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/4drop2.avi

[AGD]

I am having a problem running the file in Real Player one frame at a time. If you guys figure it out please let me know.

thanks

AGD

[Bonx0007]

it worked with WMP

[zads27]

Works for my on Win Media Player..
I didn't do the frame by frame, nice speed though (500 fps).
Keep us posted on your test results Tom, thanks.

[JanStah]

How long it takes a ball to drop.

From what I see, the bolt is open at 0.6580s

Also, the ball seems to touch the bottom of the breech at 0.7140s

.7140 - .6580 = 0.056 seconds.

So if we round it up, we can say it takes roughly 0.06s for a ball to drop into an autococker breech.

Jan.

[AGD]

Ok here is more info, the cocker bolt open stroke takes 22ms and the close stroke takes 28ms on the gun I have here. How fast can this gun shoot paintballs?

AGD

[Kaiser Bob]

Well, in Deep Blue I would probably verify the time it takes for the ball to fall in by sticking the weight and distance and other such varibles into your standard physics equations to get the actual time. Alas, its 5am and i havent slept yet so ill use the info provided. 22ms bolt open, 56ms ball drop, 28ms ball close. Not counting the time it takes for air to get the ball moving (Another Deep Blue thing) you get .106s... less than 10bps... sounds a bit slow, I'll try to figure it out using a better method later. Please point out any glaring math errors I made.

[Gecko]

my excal runs at 13 bps with i belive 10ms hammer dwell, 1 ms hammer release time, 55ms second bolt open, ~15 ms bolt forward time after bal fired. The gun feeds reliably without blowback with a halo. I still need to make the bolt forward time a little longer.
Gecko

[squall]

ideal situation

22ms + 28ms = 50ms = .05 sec, so in an ideal case, no paint, no friction, etc, pure cycle speed = 20bps.

I think Kaiser Bob has a little better estimate assuming his numbers are right (they look it). Looking at JanStah's numbers, the autococker should be able to cycle close to 17bps. Very cool video, very cool!

[Additude]

Originally posted by AGD
Ok here is more info, the cocker bolt open stroke takes 22ms and the close stroke takes 28ms on the gun I have here. How fast can this gun shoot paintballs?

AGD

I would say, "As fast as the user can pull the trigger".

[billmi]

Originally posted by AGD
Ok here is more info, the cocker bolt open stroke takes 22ms and the close stroke takes 28ms on the gun I have here. How fast can this gun shoot paintballs?

AGD

From your description above, it sounds much like the test rig I used for the WARPIG Ballistic Labs loader comparison.

You said there was no gas being fired - but is the rest of the cocking system intact, and is the hammer being cycled with each cycle of the bolt (it wasn't on my test bench)?

If not, you're only looking at how fast an Autococker receiver, bolt and ram can be used to feed paintballs - not how fast an Autococker can fire. The extra inertia of the hammer, and resistance of the mainspring on the bolt stroke would cause the bolt to take longer to open.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Gup44]

Using the times we have...

22ms to open the breach... 56ms for the ball to fall... and 28ms to close the bolt. With that info we can say that it takes

22+56+28=106 ms

to fire one ball. 106ms = 0.106s 1 second devided by 0.106 equals 9.434bps. Assuming there is no extra time that the bolt stays closed to "fire" the ball, I'd say that cocker can shoot about 9 balls per second with a gravity fed hopper (unforced).

[hitech]

Here is what I came up with. To me, it appears that the timing started at .6440 (this is a big assumption).
The ball appeared to me to be "ready" at .7120. The difference being .0680.
The time required to cycle is .050 (if I understand ms correctly).
Add that all together and we get .1180. The max ROF would be 8bps and would take .944 seconds.
This doesn't leave much time for the paintball to exit the barrel. As long as a paintball can accelerate enough in .007 seconds it will shoot 8bps.

[media]

Tom, I tried a search to see if any test simular to this were done to measure ball drop with a warp. I'd be interested in how much time is trimmed off that 60ms when using one.

Anyone have any proof of an autococker shooting faster than 10bps with a warp?

[nutz]

maybe someone with a racegun frame can help us with that