The DevilMag:

[BigEvil]

What's the fastest a sear-tripper 'noid can go? And how does the solenoid travel on a mag compare to that on a spyder?

That question depends greatly on which application you are speaking of. Emags can go into the mid 20's. ULT set up hyperframe style eframes which use the pancake noid top out at around 20 bps. EP frames vary on the set up.

[snoopay700]

Doesn't it? LOL!!! OK, forget that part... Substitute that for one of those Spyders with two trigger switches then.

Lol, yeah i figured you just made a little mistake, still was pretty damn funny.

[p8ntbal4me]

When I do a personal setup,..I try to ask myself what am I getting out of the gun

Its either:

ROF or Easy of Use

In my experience,.. sear tripping Mags with solenoids such as the pancake solenoid are good for the 25bps area. I believe you can take one after a build to that point and have almost zero issues.

The EP setups are a simple 25bps+ without question. If the solenoid is a good one and the ram is close to it and built well,... it will crank out 25bps without fail,.. then go faster.

If your plan is to weigh the pros and cons on the E-mag over a home made setup,.. your wasting your time. Its much more simple to spend $400 bucks and slap the lowers on your rail and be done.

Home brew conversions are for the user that wants something ELSE that the E-Mag can not do. Its also noticably lighter in weight as far as the E-Noid conversion goes. EP conversions can be light,.. but that depends on your frame and parts of choice in the build.

If you cant solder, follow wire diagrams, do self involved research, have some time set aside, have the funds, and sub-out the extra milling involved,.... anything other than a set of working E-Mag lowers would be a waste of both time and money.

I see alot of guys constantly say "well I can do the same thing as an E-Mag myself, but cheaper" And I kinda have to chuckle over that statement. Because WHO in their right mind,.. works for free???? Once you start adding on labor to the work,.... the cost is right up there.

~ P8nt

[Lohman446]

The DevilMags had issues that none of the owners ever fully disclosed.

Among other things lets just stay that the limiting factor was not the mag valve, it was the solenoid (same as the e-mag).

The EP mag has a much better chance of success if you are looking for 20+ ROF.

[p8ntbal4me]

There's one being developed right now with an UMF frame, a Scenario Dreams Universal board (with eyes) and a Spyder noid. I can't say much about it right now because it's still being studied (how to place the noid on the frame without ruining the frame's structure) but hopefully I'll be able to upload some pics when the work actually starts. It's going to be a bad-*** gun. Wait and you'll see.

That kinda sounds like what I was working on. I got some Solid Works still pictures if you guys wanna see where I was going with it.

And as far as a developement on the frame YOUR talking about,..... Im pretty sure you and I are talking about the same person as far as the sear tripping conversion goes. He looked at my files and spoke a little bit of his plan to do something simular.

~ P8nt

[p8ntbal4me]

The DevilMags had issues that none of the owners ever fully disclosed.

Among other things lets just stay that the limiting factor was not the mag valve, it was the solenoid (same as the e-mag).

The EP mag has a much better chance of success if you are looking for 20+ ROF.

Somewhere along the line in every marker,.. there is going to be that key part that will limit the other parts of the marker as far as ROF goes.

With an AGD marker,.. we are blessed with a nice 36bps+ base to work off of in the department of ROF. The problem with that is now you have to find the right parts and slap them together in the right combination to get the most of that base platform.

A task (as we all know) that is not easy!

~ P8nt

[mpsd]

That kinda sounds like what I was working on. I got some Solid Works still pictures if you guys wanna see where I was going with it.

And as far as a developement on the frame YOUR talking about,..... Im pretty sure you and I are talking about the same person as far as the sear tripping conversion goes. He looked at my files and spoke a little bit of his plan to do something simular.

~ P8nt

Probably yes. I won't say that I or him reinvented the wheel. That's not true, neither the point. I also don't intend to do something totally exclusive, nor to patent or sell it. I'll post a lot of pics after it's done. What happens now is that we didn't finish the design and he is a little reluctant on doing so, since he's afraid of ruining my frame (which is good, as he's protecting my investment). That's why I don't want to disclose more as of now. Anyway, we are working on it for about three to four months already. Hopefully he will finish the project by the end of this month. What I like in working with him is that he thinks like me: plan in 90% of the time and execute in 10%. This way, one can save a LOT of future headaches.

[SCpoloRicker]

The DevilMags had issues that none of the owners ever fully disclosed.

Among other things lets just stay that the limiting factor was not the mag valve, it was the solenoid (same as the e-mag).

Definitely "among other things"...

/owned one of the first 5 made
//don't own it anymore

[BigEvil]

The DevilMags had issues that none of the owners ever fully disclosed.

Among other things lets just stay that the limiting factor was not the mag valve, it was the solenoid (same as the e-mag).

The EP mag has a much better chance of success if you are looking for 20+ ROF.

You pretty much need the 'heavens and earth to align in your favor' for you to get most hyperframe type set ups to work properly. Tunaman wont even look at them anymore, and Denis from Centerflag himself told me that they 'took a beating' on them.

That whole 'pancake noid' idea seems like a good one, but in reality it is not.

[mpsd]

You pretty much need the 'heavens and earth to align in your favor' for you to get most hyperframe type set ups to work properly. Tunaman wont even look at them anymore, and Denis from Centerflag himself told me that they 'took a beating' on them.

That whole 'pancake noid' idea seems like a good one, but in reality it is not.

Can you clarify why is that? I mean, if it works so well with other sear tripped markers, why not with a Mag? Is is so different then the MPA-3, concerning how the sear is actuated?

[snoopay700]

Can you clarify why is that? I mean, if it works so well with other sear tripped markers, why not with a Mag? Is is so different then the MPA-3, concerning how the sear is actuated?

Probably more to do with the force and such. It's much harder to get an equivalent amount of force from inducing a magnet field to move the noid when compared to air pressure.

[questionful]

Oy this is not good to hear, though I'm only $20 into my project. I abandoned it a few months ago, I'll try to get around to it soon. After all, I picked up some 1/4" aluminum I can mess around with. Here's what I was planning on doing.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z304/Qful/P8310062.jpg

The noid hits a lever (1/8 allen key ) that acts on the sear. It's a stock A-5 board, and a free benchy (free because it looks like someone almost went fubar on it). I've got a couple ideas for mounting the noid, and with a little dremel work, I can get everything to fit just fine (okay maybe not "just fine," but it'll fit!).

[mpsd]

Probably more to do with the force and such. It's much harder to get an equivalent amount of force from inducing a magnet field to move the noid when compared to air pressure.

OK, that's a good point you have. Wouldn't a full shimmed ULT address this?

[BigEvil]

Can you clarify why is that? I mean, if it works so well with other sear tripped markers, why not with a Mag? Is is so different then the MPA-3, concerning how the sear is actuated?

Well, off the top of my head;

-on/off pin size
-on/off pin type
-input pressure
-solenoid age
-grime and/or rust in the solenoid
-weak capacitors
-weak or crappy batteries
-mushrooming or short solenoid plungers
-warped, bent, or modified rails. (I wish I had the time back I spent learning that one)
-over or under tightened frame screws
-misaligned solenoids
-(trigger) switch noise
-badly milled frames (wings)

^ I can do this all day.


That cheap little mpa3 does a much better job at tripping the mag sear. However it is not without its shortcomings.

[questionful]

What is everyone's opinion on the least problematic E-Pneu board and noid capable of 25bps? I don't know anything about boards, I keep hearing the names "scenario dreams," "universal," "mini morlock," and "predator," and I hate having no idea what people are talking about! Can someone just fill me in real quick?