Q loader practical for tourney?

[Hgblues]

I currently use a warp left Epneu mag with 12v revy mounted on a warpfeed, and have been using this same warp setup for 8 years. I'm a tourney player, not much rec ball.

My question is, is the Q loader practical to use in todays tourney setting. My 2 major concerns are, the low number of paint in a Q loader pod (isn't it 100 balls?), and the time it takes to swap a pod. Take into consideration most tourneys I play in are psp ramp, so, 13.3 bps (can empty 100 pballs quick) and a fast paced game (need to reload fast as possible)

I have seen some very nice Q loader setup pics, and with my current gun setup being 8 pounds 8 oz.'s , I'm looking to cut weight without losing performance.


Fire away !!

[michbich]

I've never used one, but another disadvantage of the Q is that you can't feed while reloading.

For slow woods game, it wouldn't matter, but for tourneys....

[snoopay700]

They're horrible, even in woodsball one won't last long and they're a hassle, i got one and hated it, got a halo instead and i can get just as low of a profile with it because i can turn the gun about 45 degrees sideways or more and it'll still feed. I would stick with what you have or get an electronic force feed, q-loaders really don't have a place in speedball it would seem.

[ThePixelGuru]

I use a Qloader and I like it, though it's more for the small profile than anything else.

As another poster mentioned, it's true that you can't shoot while reloading. You can flip your marker and do a sort of rock-n-cock style thing in a pinch, but you're kind of vulnerable to bunkering while your pod's out. Of course, you can switch them pretty quickly, so if you time it right you should be OK. They do only hold 100 rounds, so you have a lower on-marker capacity and you only get 100 rounds in your pack where you used to get 140.

As far as reliability goes, it's all about the individual. Maintenance, setup and just plain familiarity with the system will all affect how it works on the field. Probably your best bet is to buy a used one with a couple pods and try it out, since you can always resell it if it doesn't suit you. I prefer it to my old Warp, though the Warp could be less hassle.

[Toll]

If you're playing back avoid it like the plague. If you're upfront maybe. Maybe.

The biggest issue is reloading. It's not any more cumbersome than a standard hopper (for the most part) but you have to keep your over all tally alot more careful than you do a standard hopper.

The real downside is the fact that you're going to end up spending ALOT of money (if you want to carry more than 300 on you) on something that doesn't have amazing abilities.

Lets say you pick up a qloader and 5 pods for 150$, a pretty good deal.
Costs 50$ for a stock halo, maybe 15$ for 5 lock lids.

[GoatBoy]

Hrm. Let's see. Wrong. And Wrong. And OK. And Wrong Again.

Your biggest problems will be, in order:

• Rules governing hoppers/pods during tournament events
• Your personal mechanical aptitude
• Paint carrying capacity

Those are the REAL issues to deal with.

From what I understand, the rules may dictate that a q-pod is actually a live piece of equipment, and thus you can't drop it or toss it like a normal pod. Even if that isn't a hard set rule, there is a further rule that extends even to normal pods sometimes -- if you don't empty all of the paint out of a pod, then it's considered a live device, and the above rule applies again.

This is bad if you decide you want to go ahead and reload early, and your pod winds up retaining some paint in it.

This is a serious, serious liability for tournament play. And it's nothing to do with how well or how poorly the system works, and everything to do with how the (quite arbitrary) rules are structured.


Second, if you have no mechanical aptitude (and the fact that you're playing with the warp seems to indicate you might have some), then the q-loader is not for you. You can use some of the other people's experiences as an example.

Third is the paint carrying capacity. Yes, if you're a back, you probably won't want to go with a q-loader. If you're a front, that's a different story. Next time you go out and play, take a look at how many 140 round pods a good front player is actually carrying. Times have changed.


The rest of this post deals with the FUD and bull that people keep saying about the q-loader.

Yes, tilting a conventional hopper can help... in that one instance where you're sitting behind a Dorito. The problem is your marker is more than just your hopper, and certainly everything below it, including your arm, counts. I.e. when you tilt your HOPPER inwards, in order to still expose your barrel to fire, what's under the barrel has to tilt outwards in the opposite direction. It's that simple. If you think that tilting your hopper cures everything, you've obviously never played on a see-saw. Or maybe you played by yourself on one and never fully understood the thing.

For all other profiles, say, your side profile while running or popping up over the top of the bunker (or out of a snake), no amount of tilt is going to help you, unless you completely tilt it 90 degrees, in which case you probably won't get any paint feeding.

As far as reload speed goes, here's an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFE5DpScpw

Reload speed is *fast*. And those are not the fastest reloads; if you practice that time will come down. There are also other tricks, like what I call an "anticipatory reload" which really cuts the actual "paintless" time substantially. It's about how motivated you truly are to be a good player, not how bad the system is.

When I disengage that pod, I still have 1-2 shots in the line (more if you feed from a vertical feed neck to get a few more to drop) to fend off someone trying to bunker me, and by the way I'm reloading with my gun up and my face looking forward, and anyone trying to bunker me is going to see that. When was the last time you bunkered someone knowing full well their gun was pointed at you and they were looking straight at you?


A few weeks ago, a bunkering incident did actually happen with me. In the middle of a game, I heard the telltale pop of a hopper lid, so I decided to pop out and bunker the guy. The problem was... I had forgotten to check if my pod was empty. Not only had I drained the pod -- I had unconsciously drained the entire line of balls in the hose as well (so much for not having any shots when the pod's empty). So I run out, have the guy dead in my sights while his hopper's open, and... nothing comes out of the gun. I try to rock and cock. Nothing comes out still. Mind you he had already started his reload process before I had even started to run at his bunker, so he had a head start on me.

I decided a retreat was in order. I ran back to my bunker. While on the run, before even getting back to my bunker, I disengaged my pod and dropped it. I got behind my bunker, put the new one in and turned around just in time to catch him counter-bunkering me.

We mutual'd, but had that been a conventional loader, I would not have been ready to catch him coming at me.

[drg]

Speaking of FUD ...

Yes, tilting a conventional hopper can help... in that one instance where you're sitting behind a Dorito. The problem is your marker is more than just your hopper, and certainly everything below it, including your arm, counts. I.e. when you tilt your HOPPER inwards, in order to still expose your barrel to fire, what's under the barrel has to tilt outwards in the opposite direction. It's that simple. If you think that tilting your hopper cures everything, you've obviously never played on a see-saw. Or maybe you played by yourself on one and never fully understood the thing.

If your arm sticks out while angling your hopper, your gun is set up wrong. The whole point is to keep your arm in AND your hopper in, and it works on any bunker with a straight vertical edge as well (which covers pretty much all other bunkers).

For all other profiles, say, your side profile while running or popping up over the top of the bunker (or out of a snake), no amount of tilt is going to help you, unless you completely tilt it 90 degrees, in which case you probably won't get any paint feeding.

A true force feed hopper such as a halo can feed the preload paint upside-down if need be.

[GoatBoy]

Speaking of FUD ...
If your arm sticks out while angling your hopper, your gun is set up wrong. The whole point is to keep your arm in AND your hopper in, and it works on any bunker with a straight vertical edge as well (which covers pretty much all other bunkers).

That's pretty interesting. I'm kind of assuming you're the kid that tried to play on the see-saw alone.

Here's a picture of an example gun sticking out the side of a bunker. (Red is bunker, green is tank, blue is grip/foregrip, gray is barrel, black is hopper).



Here is the gun rotated exactly 45 degrees as specified by the earlier poster. Note that in order for the gun to still fire, the barrel needs to still clear the bunker, so that's where the rotation point is.



What gun configuration allows you to tilt your gun to hide your hopper, but not expose your grip/air tank, and thus the hand and arm holding onto them?

A true force feed hopper such as a halo can feed the preload paint upside-down if need be.

Really?

[Toll]

It can, though it'll be maybe 1-2 balls using a standard halo.

When I tilt in I tend to "work the bunker" more than I actually rotate, in some cases nothing is showing save for my barrel and mask, though thats a pretty deflated bunker

45 degrees being from basically the bottom of the frame, rather than the barrel

[GoatBoy]

It can, though it'll be maybe 1-2 balls using a standard halo.

When I tilt in I tend to "work the bunker" more than I actually rotate, in some cases nothing is showing save for my barrel and mask, though thats a pretty deflated bunker

45 degrees being from basically the bottom of the frame, rather than the barrel

And what's to prevent you from just working that same deflated bunker without tilting at all in the first place? If the bunker is so deflated as to allow you to hide everything below the barrel as it's tilted out, you might as well just leave the gun vertical and work the bunker that way.


Come on guys, this isn't that hard.


Bust out your favorite drawing program and just show everyone what you're talking about.

[Toll]

Depends on what the bunker is and where I am shooting/know who's shooting at me.

If I am shooting out of the right side of a stand up at a target on the right tape (lets say far right tape) I am putting my playing loose and using my barrel to nudge the bunker while tilting . I use a 14 in barrel (grows on you) and it gives me alot of room to be doing that. On a bunker that is fully inflated (over inflated if you will) that changes and I'd be playing tighter with my tank a little higher up on my shoulder to keep that a bit closer.

I do it out of the fact I hate cleaning my hopper and my elbow pads grace me with many a bounce. The only time I could see a warp/q being a deciding factor would be when you are in the front and you are always, always in the snake.

[drg]

There's a couple things wrong and forgotten about your example. First, that is a highly exaggerated tilt for a vertical bunker. Second, and perhaps more important, your example leaves out the important fact that there is a person behind the marker.

Add the person in and suddenly the tilt starts making more sense:



BUT ... the situation described by this image is actually not very accurate. You would never be shooting, or would never want to be shooting at a guy who is basically posted up dead-on at you like this. You're either going to be off-axis or he's going to be snapping with you, so there's a good chance he is going to look more like this:



THEN add in the fact that in most instances on a paintball field, your shot is obstructed by at least one intervening bunker (not the least of which is the bunker you are behind at the moment), and in many situations the tilt starts making a pretty big difference:



Add in the fact that you can catch way more bounces off an elbow pad than a hopper, and yeah there is plenty of reason to tilt in various situations, in more than just doritos.

[Bang and Breach]

Excluding the first post, every post in this thread should have contained the word, 'NO'.


Also:

NO.

[GoatBoy]

Uhm, are you actually trying to prove what I'm saying is right? Because that's what your first three pictures actually do, and everyone can see it.

If the tank and grip tilt out, they tilt out. Your original premise was that they don't tilt out, and that it's a problem of... what was your wording... ah yes, "gun is set up wrong." You have so far not proved this premise. You have not redrawn the gun setup -- you are using the one that I have originally envisioned, so either my gun setup was wrong, or your argument was wrong. Furthermore, you've added a user behind the gun, but you have yet to add the arm and the hand holding the gun back in.

Your initial premise was simply, physically wrong, and any further argument you try to make to shore it up is necessarily going to be wrong.



Your last two pictures are just trying really hard to literally hide the fact that your initial premise was wrong behind a new yellow bunker.

We're talking about tournament ball, so the instances of something like that happening are going to be either the snake, or that horizontal bunker is located further forward of the standup bunker.

Just because you do not have a clear line of sight to see the tank sticking out doesn't mean it's NOT THERE. The tank and grip and hand and arm are STILL THERE. An experienced player will KNOW they're still there because they KNOW that the guy's probably doing the tilt, and that he is probably trying to hide his hopper.

Paintballs are not lasers. They drop in flight. That yellow bunker out in the middle of the field? That's false protection. You send paint just over the bunker, and it will drop and hit something below it.

As far as the snake example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcAL5f9MGlY

I hit tournament players with that shot all the time.


And now you're adding stuff about bounces off elbows and arms and stuff that wasn't supposed to be sticking out in the first place according to your original premise.

[drg]

Uhm, are you actually trying to prove what I'm saying is right? Because that's what your first three pictures actually do, and everyone can see it.

If the tank and grip tilt out, they tilt out. Your original premise was that they don't tilt out, and that it's a problem of... what was your wording... ah yes, "gun is set up wrong." You have so far not proved this premise. You have not redrawn the gun setup -- you are using the one that I have originally envisioned, so either my gun setup was wrong, or your argument was wrong. Furthermore, you've added a user behind the gun, but you have yet to add the arm and the hand holding the gun back in.

I didn't say tank and grip. I said ARM. Your ARM sticks no further out when tilting than when not tilting, if you are doing it right and if your gun is set up right. Notice the body in the images (which represents the extent of the shooter's body, arm, everything -- your elbow should not be outside your shoulder) does not change dimensions at all. The only thing that happens is the hopper reduces its profile.

I worked within the confines of your rather simplistic example, and tried to illustrate why, in realistic situations, tilting does help. Landmarking or arcing is a completely independent issue -- a red herring here.

But I guess ultimately, when you watch tournaments you will notice two things -- people tilt their loaders a lot, and very few people use qloaders, warps or any of that. That speaks for itself, really.

I do not know what that video is supposed to prove. When he was tilting his loader, he was basically unhittable. When he changed positions, his elbow came up and got tagged.