co2 safety issues

[jgilk1]

This being my first post on automags.org i should tell you a little bit about my self and what i expect out of my gear.

I recently have been intrigued by all things old school auto cocker's, retro bicycle, just got a 73 blazer that needs a lot of work.

i have been looking @ getting a mag for some time now

Well to be honest i want some thing that is

1.Reliable, sturdy well built, not just stamped/cast out of a chunk of aluminum bolted together, thrown in a box and slapped on the shelf for $1.50 (I.E. tippmann, most electros)

2.If dropped in a mud hole i could pick it up squeegee out the barrel wipe it off and keep shooting (like my cocker)

3. second shoot alot of paint with out batteries.

4. small compact with out a lot of frills and or gadgets attached

Now on to my Question's
I have read a lot of articles about mags and have shot numerous models but it seems that all of them have been powered by compressed air/nitrogen (hpa) i was just wondering why you couldn't run co2 with an anti-siphon tube or an expansion chamber with a mag like you would with any other marker?

is there any way to make a mag any more efficient or would i be stuck with a gass hog?

[DevilMan]

You can run a mag with CO2 no problem. You CAN"T run a mag with an X valve on CO2 though.

And yes the more expansion, filters, and anti-siphon systems you have in place the more consistent you'll be and you'll freeze up less.

Now that said if you shoot alot and freeze up the internals of the valve then you'll mess up sealing O-rings and well that's that. So if you can keep the liquid CO2 out of the valve you'll be doing well. That can be done as mentioned as well as with a palmers CO2 friendly regulator.

Good luck, have fun... and if you want reliable then I'd take a mag hands down over a cocker any day of the week. And yes I own several of both.

DM

Woot Woot!!! Triple Nickel on the post count!!!!!

What do I win??

[snoopay700]

Get a classic mag with a level 7 bolt (from the factory, not a venturi one) and get the power tube spacer kit, and put the smallest spacer in there, and then use a bottom line asa and you should be able to use co2 no problem, my mag has no worries with it and it has no expansion chamber.

DM is right about the x-valve/rt valve/e-mag valves however, those can't use co2 unless you're using a pump.

[GoatBoy]

The word is that you can't use CO2 on an X/RT valve. I haven't tried it so I can neither confirm nor deny this.

The classic valves CAN run on CO2, but it doesn't turn out very well at high rates of fire unless you make certain modifications. Expansion chambers, bottomline ASA's, and anti-siphons only offer really minor improvements at a disproportionate cost.

The real solution is to gut the A.I.R. and use a separate CO2 tolerant regulator like a Palmer Stabilizer.

[ThePixelGuru]

I run two of my three 'mags on CO2 all the time (the third is an R/T which can't run on CO2). They work fine, but I don't tend to shoot a lot of paint. If I had a tendency to shoot more sustained strings of paint, I'd probably switch them to HPA tanks and/or ReTro or X-Valves.

[MAGslinger]

I run my Minimag off compressed air, it eliminates virtually all maintenance (with the exception of ball broken paintballs caused by hopper misfeeds. Co2 is cool to, just remember that you'll spend more time and money replacing O-Rings.

[jgilk1]

if i buy a mag i want it to be agd original so i will be buying new it's just that i have alot of co2 tanks i have bought over the years of playing paintball.

20 oz co2 cost next to nothing ($18)
68/3000 starts @ like $100


next question is what would be the best hopper to use on a ule rt custom not set up for rapid fire? force feed or gravity feed agitator?

[pk5]

Either one of the hopper will work and none of them are actually "best", but if you want to pneu the marker later on, you will need a force feed to accomodate the feed rate.

RT ule custom have a level 10 on it so that should prevent chop, but all of the rt ule custom have an xvalve so i guess you will have to use compress air on it.

[paint magnet]

I have two classic Mags which alternate between CO2 and HPA (but never in the same day).

I have run CO2 on a bottomline with no issues, unless you point it straight at the ground and fire several shots. I also ran CO2 on a remote line while there was snow on the ground with no issues. Basically, as long as you have some way of preventing liquid from getting in the valve, you're fine. There are several options, among them:

-An anti-syphon tank
-An inline reg, like a sideline Stabilizer
-An expansion chamber
-Running a remote hose
-Vertical bottle setup (no anti-syphon with this one, obviously)
-Really long hose between bottle and valve with lots of loops
-A half-full CO2 tank

Or any combination thereof.

As for hoppers, anything that has a motor will be fine for a Classic Mag. I use a Ricochet Apache and have never outshot it with any mech gun. It keeps up pretty well with my electros too, and it's very light. Having a force feed loader with a mech gun is pointless, and often the plastic nubbin on the Mag barrel is susceptable to double feeding with a force feed loader.

[Enemy]

if i buy a mag i want it to be agd original so i will be buying new it's just that i have alot of co2 tanks i have bought over the years of playing paintball.

20 oz co2 cost next to nothing ($18)
68/3000 starts @ like $100


next question is what would be the best hopper to use on a ule rt custom not set up for rapid fire? force feed or gravity feed agitator?

due to the way the r/t valves(x valve, retro valve, r/t pro, r/t valve) recharge the use of co2 is not recomended. The flow is so fast that the gas turns to liquid wich then freezes the orings causing the bolt to stick and a huge leak.

if you want to run co2 then you have to use a classic valve, and certain precautions to keep liquid out of the valve as that will again freeze the orings, fortunately as long as you dont damage the oring if you give the valve a chance to thaw it may function again on the same oring.

Also you can get a nice used fiber wrapped hpa tank online here and at pbn for around 80-100$ and unless you play where hpa is not available it is more than worth it!

[jgilk1]

to be truly honest where i play there is no access to co2/hpa for almost 20 miles or a half hour drive it's just alot of pb players who get together every weekend @ around noon there might be a senario game or big event every couple months.

no ref, no real rules, mask and chrono are required and safety is of the ut most concern because as i stated above the hospital is half hour away.

due to the way the r/t valves(x valve, retro valve, r/t pro, r/t valve) recharge the use of co2 is not recomended. The flow is so fast that the gas turns to liquid wich then freezes the orings causing the bolt to stick and a huge leak.

that is what i was looking for i was wondering why the agd info guide says that rapid fire causes the x-valve to heat up

i have used older mags with co2 with out a problem but it just made me wonder why the x-valve was different but that simple sentence says it all thanks Enemy

as the mechanics are there and i understand what the problem is even if you ran vert feed co2 in to a palmer a5 stabalizer the issue of freezing is still there due to the rapid expansion of the gas in the the mag reg you will stil get freezing of the o ring in the valve.