Dry Fire Efficiency Test

[brycelarson]

The 4ms is just a plucked-from-the-air nominal figure that should tell you whether a) the Ion was operating in one of the above conditions (but not which one) or b) the Ion really does function as shown with the first data set.

We're looking at doing the barrel break test this Sunday. We'll see how long that takes and if we decide we're up for it I'm sure we could do a few additional trials with the Ion - maybe 2 sets, one at +4ms one at +8 - see what happens. Quite honestly - give me a mechanical gun and I'll make it sing, hand me an electronic one and I'm more likley to just turn it on and play with it - I don't tend to monkey with them as I don't often see as dramatic results as I would tuning a cocker (for example).

Any additional suggestions from knowledgeable people about how we could make this test cover more guns / setups etc would be appreciated.

Personally, I'm curious about a lv 7 bolt on a mag - vs the lv 10.

[Hilltop Customs]

It sounds like you want to go broad...aka formulate something that can be applied to all pb-guns in general. Only way to do that is test a wide variety of guns, and then formulate a theory thats applicable to all the data youve collected.

Mine which I posted eariler was:
no ball in the barrel=less restriction of gas flow out the barrel=more efficient emptying of the dump chamber=more gas used per shot

the Ion seems to go against that idea, which is still amazing to me...but I think its explainable by the non-sealed dump chamber. If the dwell for the ion is longer than the time it requires for the ball to escape the barrel, the the gas usage for firing a ball could possibly be equivalent to that used when dry firing.(I could explain relating it to a mag and its sealed chamber design, but that might take a little while)



You know what I would be interested to see.....if you find your # of shots dryfired and fired with with balls stock, then make a change (board settings, bolt...anything) if the % increase of dryfired shots correlates with the % increase in ball fired shots. That way you could simply empty a tank dry firing before and after a change to figure the increase or decrease of usable paintballs.

once again I would like to you guys on your work (applaud)

[brycelarson]

It sounds like you want to go broad...aka formulate something that can be applied to all pb-guns in general.

Neither of us thinks we're going to find anything that will apply to all guns - there are simply too many variations out there.

We were hoping to cover most of the main types of firing systems.

[brycelarson]

funny stuff - a thread nearly identical to this one (with a significantly lower average IQ of replies) has been closed over on PBN for inappropriate content.

I apologize if this content has offended anyone

[Hilltop Customs]

any chance of getting a link? it would be funny to see, but I dont really wanna have to sift through....well you know what most of the threads over there are.

[brycelarson]

it apparently was because the title of our video was "TechPB Dry Fire Efficiency Test"

the thread itself is gone - but the conversations about it are in the ask the mods section.

[cockerpunk]

here is the PBN link - http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2809760

fun stuff, PBN is worst about this crap.

[SCpoloRicker]

Just read your exchange at PBN.

All I would say to you is:

"Your a idiot"

[Beemer]

Just read your exchange at PBN.

All I would say to you is:

"Your a idiot"

All I would say to you is see ya next week. Thats what ya get for flaming. You come back and I have to Mod another one of your posts you WILL get a perm. Come On you know better.

[cockerpunk]

thank you!

im currently uploading the "PBN safe" version of the test.

[cockerpunk]

PBN version, thought you guys might like it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5fmfl4Oxk

[sffudapparel]

pbn sucks.

keep it up like always

[GoatBoy]

Boyle's law is:

P1*V1 = P2*V2

Assume LHS is the tank, RHS is basically STP.

1000PSI * 13ci = (14.6959488 PSI)*V2

884.59752935448455 ci of air consumed in your test.

884.59752935448455/(12*12*12) = 0.51191986652458599 cf

The weight of air is around 0.0807lbs/cf.

0.51191986652458599cf * 0.0807lbs/cf = 0.041311933228534083 lbs.

0.041311933228534083 * 16 * 28.3495231 = 18.738777685887751g

Taking your data for the Emag with level 10:

0.33462103010513838grams per shot, roughly.

I just did a quick trial with my mag (X-valve, level 10, 5 shims, gold spring), dry firing only (can't shoot paint). I didn't have enough air to do 100 shots, so the accuracy is suspect, and but I threw the mag on a scale and recorded the weight. It started at 2080grams, and after 40 shots, it was at 2070 grams, so roughly about 0.25grams per shot.

There's still a lot of variables here (my data's pretty suspect because it's unchrono'd and I didn't take enough shots), but someone with more air might want to see how repeatable this is.

[cockerpunk]

Boyle's law is:

P1*V1 = P2*V2

Assume LHS is the tank, RHS is basically STP.

3000PSI * 13ci = (14.6959488 PSI)*V2

V2 = 2653.7925880634534 ci

2000PSI * 13ci = (14.6959488 PSI)*V2

V2 = 1769.1950587089689 ci

Subtract the two, you get:

884.59752935448455 ci of air consumed in your test.

884.59752935448455/(12*12*12) = 0.51191986652458599 cf

The weight of air is around 0.0807lbs/cf.

0.51191986652458599cf * 0.0807lbs/cf = 0.041311933228534083 lbs.

0.041311933228534083 * 16 * 28.3495231 = 18.738777685887751g

Taking your data for the Emag with level 10:

0.33462103010513838grams per shot, roughly.

I just did a quick trial with my mag (X-valve, level 10, 5 shims, gold spring), dry firing only (can't shoot paint). I didn't have enough air to do 100 shots, so the accuracy is suspect, and but I threw the mag on a scale and recorded the weight. It started at 2080grams, and after 40 shots, it was at 2070 grams, so roughly about 0.25grams per shot.

There's still a lot of variables here (my data's pretty suspect because it's unchrono'd and I didn't take enough shots), but someone with more air might want to see how repeatable this is.

it was 2k psi

[GoatBoy]

it was 2k psi

Oops. Oh well, it doesn't really matter (it might if we have to start accounting for nonlinearities due to pressure). What matters is you dropped 1k worth of PSI at roughly 13ci. You can actually simplify the math a lot if you sit down and solve the equations.


Again, I think a digital scale is cheaper, easier to obtain, easier to use (install), and easier to read than an analog PSI gauge. Also, the size of the tank shouldn't matter much, so people don't have to buy 13ci tanks to try it on their own. It's something to think about if you want a lot of other people doing testing as well.