Blood Red Paintballs (Thread from Pbnation News)

[Lohman446]

I've seen a few bleeders. I've also be the stretcher bearer for one or two of them when someone passed out from exhaustion. I've helped people hobble off the field with BROKEN ankles and took one lady to the ER with an ankle the size of my thigh. Traumatic bleeding?? No not really, but the possibility is there. Likely??? Let's hope not.

But still give a valid reason why red fill is the way to go???? Is it more visible??? Does it "resemble" blood better??? Have you ever seen a persons head that's been shot? I know you've seen other things that have been shot.

It's a simple matter of WHY have it? When there are enough other colors available.

DM

I've watched one teammate play with a broken collar bone at PSP Chicago. I myself played with a collapsed lung / bruised ribs / sprained ankle the day after it happened. I have watched one player play after tearing knee ligaments. I have witnessed a lot of paintball injuries, in none of them would blood have been an issue.

As to players panicing. Never tell certain teammates I have said this but very few people who play paintball are extremely pain adverse. Playing paintball hurts - done correctly it hurts. Getting hit hurts. People are not stupid and even those going out for the first time realize it hurts. So I don't buy the "look down, see 'blood', and panic" theory.

As to the PC theory. Paintball is not better off today than it was ten years ago. And this was after we allowed it to be "politcally correct". Maybe its time we accept the base fact of the game - we are SHOOTING at each other. There is no way to make this PC. Trying to do so is like trying to convince a member of the KKK to vote for Obama. It's just not going to happen.

[DevilMan]

I've watched one teammate play with a broken collar bone at PSP Chicago. I myself played with a collapsed lung / bruised ribs / sprained ankle the day after it happened. I have watched one player play after tearing knee ligaments. I have witnessed a lot of paintball injuries, in none of them would blood have been an issue.

As to players panicing. Never tell certain teammates I have said this but very few people who play paintball are extremely pain adverse. Playing paintball hurts - done correctly it hurts. Getting hit hurts. People are not stupid and even those going out for the first time realize it hurts. So I don't buy the "look down, see 'blood', and panic" theory.

As to the PC theory. Paintball is not better off today than it was ten years ago. And this was after we allowed it to be "politcally correct". Maybe its time we accept the base fact of the game - we are SHOOTING at each other. There is no way to make this PC. Trying to do so is like trying to convince a member of the KKK to vote for Obama. It's just not going to happen.

Lohman, as I said before. I've seen some of the injuries as well. I've also not ever seen a major bloody injury. But at the same time I accept the fact that it can/will and more more than likely has happened. I bolded the parts above. This is a GAME to PLAY. This isn't war. Is it similar? Sure. But that don't mean that for the general public it needs to be considered as a simulated war exercise. It's a GAME is it not?

I'm done here. I've stated my point and I've given reasons of validation. When someone comes up with a reason why red fill is better than any other fill and can state a valid reason and explain it with logic then drop me a PM and I'll come check it out.

Have a great weekend folks!!!

DM

[Lohman446]

The logic is this: Some people want something else in the game. Since we have decided there is virtually no safety factor involved why condemn it?

The game can only grow through inclusion. Start making it an exclusive elitist game....

[StygShore]

Hell Survivors in MI ( Monster Game ) has used Red fllled Diablo Fireball paint for going on about 8 years now.

They brag about red being their field color - mostly becaseu you cant buy it off the shelf ( until now )


What sucks is the marketing - but so does most of the marketing form the rest of the paintball industry.


Styg

[athomas]

I definately don't like the marketing and the connotations that go with it. Blood realism, drugs, and violence aren't part of the paintball game.

Red isn't more visible. Yellow is actually more visible because it is the color that the eye is most sensitive to.

I have actually had shots that brought blood on more than one occasion and have had minor scrapes in paintball games that did not tear clothing but did cause bleeding. I once got shot from a rear position and the paintball got past my mask and hit me behind the ear. It brought blood. I was out of the game and immediately went back to the staging area to check the nature of the cut rather than hang around and wait for the next game. I was fine, but you can never be too cautious when dealing with head injuries. A friend of mine got hit on the side of the mask and a piece of paintball came through and went into his ear and brought blood. There was no serious damage and he was fine, but the sight of blood caused us to be cautious. If you used red paint, any hits around the head area would have to be investigated after every game to verify that no harm was done. This could cause us to become less sensitive to real emergencies on the field, because your first reaction would be that it is just red paint.

[Hilltop Customs]

IMO red paint doesnt drive people away from the "sport", but advertisements and product names like these do.

athomas while I agree that red paint could slow the identification of actual blood, the first thing you notice about someone who got hurt is not blood....most of the time it is their body language or them verbally saying something. Then all it takes is a wipe down of the area to realize there is blood.....the wipe down would happen no matter what color paint, because the paint needs to be out of there to further investigate the injury.

what I'm trying to say is: would the actions taken to identify/treat the injuries in the situations you present be any different if there was a different color paint fill used? I really doubt it.

On the other hand, take a look back at the advertisement. Is that they type of image we want to portray as a "sport"? How many parents would see names and advertisements like that and simply say "NO way!"? IMO thats a horrible image to use as a marketing scheme, and I hope they fail miserably as a product.

ps: anyone else think they are marketing to shooting random people on the street with blood colored paint

[dstud2000]

Personally I would walk off any field using paint with red fill.

Well then don't go to Hell Survivors Inc, in Pickney, MI their field paint is called Fireball by Procaps and they promote its BLOOD RED fill. HSI I should say promotes its blood red fill.

[B-Pow]

The logic is this: Some people want something else in the game. Since we have decided there is virtually no safety factor involved why condemn it?

The game can only grow through inclusion. Start making it an exclusive elitist game....

Start making it an exclusive elitist game?

Have you noticed it's always been an exclusive elitist game. It's an expensive game to play, and due to it's cost it's been exclusive and elitist since day one. The Pro circut for this game is all about exclusive and elitist (he who spends the most gets in). If you go into the early beginigs or outlaw ball...that's even more exclusive and elitist....a group of people who are already going have to NOT exclude you for once, and let you try out their elite group.

This game has ALWAYS been exclusive and elitist.

[Lohman446]

Start making it an exclusive elitist game?

Have you noticed it's always been an exclusive elitist game. It's an expensive game to play, and due to it's cost it's been exclusive and elitist since day one. The Pro circut for this game is all about exclusive and elitist (he who spends the most gets in). If you go into the early beginigs or outlaw ball...that's even more exclusive and elitist....a group of people who are already going have to NOT exclude you for once, and let you try out their elite group.

This game has ALWAYS been exclusive and elitist.

I know... and its working isn't it?

You had new market growth - growth that simply can be expected in a new market. Its not being sustained, there's a reason and the elitism is a good part of it.

[maniacmechanic]

the ad stinks , the hype stinks , the drug references stink , I really don't care about the color ( i like pink ) hey & guess what ; IF WE BUY IT , WE AGAIN GET TO SUPPORT THE CHINESE WAR MACHINE , in other words Made In China puke , puke , puke

[MAGslinger]

Yeah I know, that's why I buy USA made products. It's too tempting though, red paintballs....

[drg]

The reason everyone does not like red paint is because it is hard to wipe off once your hit (that's why tourney players and woodsballers alike don't like it, because it eliminates cheaters). Red is far more easy to recognize at greater distances than yellow, blue or even pink. I'm going to buy this stuff just to expose the pathetic cheaters at my local field (mostly tourney players in woodsball games).

Eh? Blood red paint would be very difficult to see.

[bjyourk]

I'll throw in my 2 cents: I have an issue with the correlation of the red paint and the words "...blood-colored mark". Again, not the color, just what it is relating to.

I wrote the company a letter and here's how it all went:


"Mike,

Your ad for paintballs was recently shown to me on a paintball forum. I do believe you will definitely score big with the younger crowd of players but am concerned about possible backlash to the sport, in general. The sport has a good share of critics and rightfully so. There was an incident stateside recently where some kids were driving around shooting cars with their markers and hit a baby in the head while being breastfed! I am in no way insinuating that you, or any other manufacturer of paintball goods is responsible, however, I believe that it is "good business" to be an advocate for RESPONSIBLE play(and handling of equipment). Advertising "...will look like a real hit...."(paraphrase) is counter to what the sport is trying to achieve and portray. The markers used to be termed "guns", you don't "kill" anyone, it's called "marked" or "tagged". This is/was all done PURPOSELY to give the sport a better name.

I know you are in the business of making money and respect that. I believe, however, that it can be done responsibly and without misrepresenting what the sport is about. Wanting to sell "looks like a real hit" just isn't right.

Respectfully,

Brandon Yourkiewicz

[B]His Reply:
"Hi Brandon,

You make some interesting point mate. But I must rebut some,

As for the stupid idiots that did the drive by (and any other idiots that do
the same thing), the relevance of what colour they use (for which I believe
there was no mention of red paint used) would make no difference at all. The
fact that they shot innocents (and a baby defies any form of understanding)
is what matters, a colour does not make the paint any more dangerous.
Now in Australia, paintball was originally banned altogether, then after it
was legal (in 50% of the country's states, but under strict controls) for
about 4 years, they banned the importation of ALL semi automatic paintball
guns across the whole nation. In one of our biggest states, Victoria, where
paintball was legal to play (incident free no less) after 10 years of no
problems, the state government changed the law, so that to play paintball
you had to have a firearms licence. The catch was to get a firearms licence
you need to have a genuine reason, and get this, wanting to play paintball
was deemed not a good enough reason......if a field let anyone play without
a licence it was a $6,000 fine per person and for the field operator.

So the sport was killed off instantly...... now over the last 5 years we
have managed to crawl ourselves back as an industry and get a lot of these
laws fixed. We can now legally take home our own guns in most states and
there is only one state in the whole country that paintball guns are still
not legal. We can import semi auto paintball guns.... it is all good.
Now the reason I bring this up is that especially in the early days we all
called the guns markers, called shooting someone tagging, etc. But in
reality, we are playing a game that involves the vast majority of it
participants to dress up in camouflage clothing and play a game where the
main goal is to shoot the opponent..... I know there are flags involved and
other objectives, but let us not kid ourselves. It is a War-game.

Now there is nothing to be ashamed about this. Most of the biggest movies
and computer games are all about war. When we sit around and use words like
tag and marker, most people outside of the industry look at us like we are
trying to hide something.... Why should we? We do not hurt anyone. All we do
is give people a fun time. Paintball is a war game, paintball is fun.
Remember chess is also a war game.

On the nation we have taken a beating from a few individuals over
a. our images on our advertising.
b. our use of red paint.


a. Our advertising was always intended to promote controversy, we are not
about killing people for real, drug use or murdering period. I am a proud
father of three young girls (6, 10 and 14) have been married for 19 years,
and have no criminal record. None of our staff fit this stereotype either. I
honestly believe that while our advertising is cheeky, even a little
naughty, compared to some of the stuff I have seen used before, we are no
different. The main difference is that most of the others are all American
companies, so that is why I keep bringing up the whole Hypocrisy line.
Because that is all it is. Look at the products of cool US companies like
Hybrid and Contract Killer, Anarchy, Evil and so on? Do we want to talk
about scaring mums etc, what about all the scenario and Milsim stuff,
Paintball guns that a replica M16s, AK47s etc, now that would scare an
outsider, I do not have a problem with it (in fact I love it) but then
again, I am not a Hypocrite.....
b. I have stated two similar responses to this all along. Number one is that
we are not the only company that makes red paint in the world or even in the
USA. Red paint has been used for more than 20 years, yet there has been no
problems as per all the posts put up by everyone on the Nation. The other
thing is that red paint is only one of the many colours we make. Truth be
told red paint is less than 1% of our total production. So why is bad for us
to make red paint but okay for other to do so? Let me see, that's right, the
others are American companies? There goes the whole Hypocrisy again.

Now I am not intending to fight everyone on this, but the facts are,
We have used red paint here (just like in the USA) on and off from since we
started running paintball with none of the so called problems people are
making up. Hundreds of thousands of users here in Australia alone, the
number of users of red paint in the US would have run into millions over the
last 20 years... where is the crime, all the problems everyone talks about?
It would be obvious to all to see as a simple fact, that red paint is more
dangerous. But it is not... is it?

We have far more people wanting paint from us then we can make right now.
These are both new and well established companies from all over the world.
Not drug syndicates or war mongers and rapists.
I thank you for your email, especially because it was very polite and to the
point. I sincerely hope that some time in the future you get the chance to
use some of our products, but if you feel that you need to boycott all of
them because of our supposedly total lack of business ethics, then I will
understand that in a free world that is your right.

Have a great day...
Regards,

Michael Whybrew
Killer Paintballs Group
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER




My last Resopnse:
"Michael,

Perhaps I didn't explain myself too well. The fact that it's RED, is not, in and of itself, my issue. Red paint is great for woodsball. To me however, it is how you(your company) marketed the color....the association of red and the words "...blood-colored hit." Again, in my opinion, that just seems to make it a little to real. And yes, you can argue the point of violence in video games, but it is taken to the next level when you actually have a marker in hand and tagging people. Playing a driving game on Xbox and actually driving on the road are quite different....I think you would agree.

Kids are impressionable and the marketing you have chosen to employ is walking that fine line. So again, no problem with the color, just how it's advertised. And one more thing....I haven't heard the term "War Game" in years. "Scenario Game" is the norm here.....again, all about the images that are conjured up in one's mind. (not that we're the benchmark, I'm just stating)

Just my opinion and, given the chance, I will certainly try your product.

I wish you continued success and hope you continue to be responsible advocates for the sport!

Respectfully,

Brandon Yourkiewicz

[Watcher]

Odd that people noticed the pills and syringe but not the pseudo dead body...

PC or not the reason most fields discouraged the use of red fill was due to the fact that non playing people associated paintball with survivalists and other like minded wackos.
You want hard to wipe off, the white chalk fill that was popular as field paint in the early nineties was killer to wipe off. Want easy to see from a distance, florescent orange is your colour, easier to see from a distance than red is....

Green would be the easiest to see in all conditions...

I can see the red association with blood being a problem.
Many times a new player underestimates how much paintballs sting and they usually over-emphasize it. Add it that players can be as young as 10 I think that a kid getting railed in the chest and seeing "red" could invoke a traumatic fit...

I remember playing at a small place with a party of youths and their mom. The mom was having second thought about even letting the kids play with anyone outside their group. She was devestated and considered us a bad influence when my 2 friends and I played against all 10 of them and won without a loss, imagine if we'd have been shooting "blood red" paint. Over-reacting, psycho, anti-paintballer, angry, political connections, soccer mom

The killing aspect, the only times I would consider tagging a "kill" would be in large scale scenario games such as OK-D-Day. There, for the sheer number of people involved I could see red paint vs blue paint or just "blood red" all around, I mean, there are even medics in the games
But normal scenarioball, woodsball, speedball, x-ball, hyperball, whatever your game its an "out" not a "kill".

Drug reference... not cool. Not cool at all. It isn't the game Hitman, it's paintball...
Dead chick... in terms of advertising I don't see the problem. In terms of the demographic, major problem. Violence should not be affiliated with paintball at all, but like I said a little simulated violence is ok IMO concerning scenario-big games.
For example: a "dead" soldier sitting by a building with an A-5 is one thing.
A murdered chick on what looks like a bathroom floor? Not cool. Not cool at all...


Seems to me that the executive you e-mailed got a little too worked up over this topic...

[Beemer]

You all must have missed post twenty two.