SP and the Paintball Market

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  • Automagsam
    www.theburkepost.com
    • Jan 2006
    • 345

    #1

    SP and the Paintball Market

    Now, I wanted to cover the so called SP crisis in this post to help offer some sort of closure or solution, but in order to do so we need to take a look at the paintball market as a whole. It is my goal to create a little more positive thinking, as though myself I do not personally like Smart Parts, I'm also not into people sitting around and complaining, and I will explain why in this post. Everything I'm about to state is merely an idea and a suggestion, and does not have to be taken as the ultimate truth. It is good as consumers and people who partake in this market, to question the market itself.

    First let me address the whole idea of the paintball market going down hill or dying. The paintball market is not dead nor will it be in a long long time. What I believe is happening is the market is adjusting to the demand of its consumers, and this is a good thing, because if it didn't, well then there would be no paintball market. Now if you the consumer, are against the changes being made, and the market for the most part isn't listening to you, it is because the Market caters to what is in demand of the majority of its consumers, no the minority, so in fact your wants really are not that important to paintball as a whole, whether your wants are good or bad. Let me put it this way, if the market was to souly focus on the minority and what the minority wanted, then the profit margin or intake would be small and the market would topple. (this is not to say they totally disregard what the minority wants) So those who are complaining about the market and are not getting heard, are essentially not important to the majority of the market's needs. If you want to change the market, essentially the minority has to become the majority. It all comes down to relative scarcity and supply and demand (which is controlled by scarcity).

    Everyone who does complain on the forum seems to complain about the issues, but not offer some form of resolution. I mean ideally to solve the problem of say SP we would need everyone to start purchasing other things aside from SP products, but realistically when this occurs, and eventually odds are it will, a large sum of people would need to take part and ultimately SP guns will have to go out of fashion.

    Now let me present my guide lines for effectively balancing the companies in the paintball market, so SP is not a monopoly. There needs to be another company, other than AGD (they don't have enough resources at this point) that can meet the demands of the mainstream consumer (the majority). Now most of you here aren't mainstream so naturally you might not want another "ion esque" marker for example, however the best way to regulate the market and not need government intervention is through competition, so those SP haters here might have to embrace another company, even if you are not mainstream, mainstream competition is needed in order to prevent a monopoly without the government reaching in and taking control. I don't want PB companies to worry about being busted up and regulated by our government due to their actions, and the consumer shouldn't either. Part of the problem is the fact not enough patenting occurred early on. The lack of economical competition and idea of free ideas only hindered the market and development. If you want people to be able to freely expand on your ideas yet not abuse them like SP abused them, you need to patent and protect them. If the paintball market ever dies soon (which it won't) it'd be due to the lack of competition provided by certain companies. (Yes companies still competed with markers back during the days when things went un patented, but they failed to protect their other ideas). I hate saying this, but ultimately SP came to power because while everyone was being equal and carefree about their ideas with the thought the market only wants to improve them for the good of the sport, SP came along and decided to steal the work, as wrong as this morally may be, companies are suffering for poor competitive economic management. Now to fix our issues (and SP is crooked don't get me wrong), we have to essentially sell out do the the failure of other companies. Remember SP didn't come to power on its own, you can't just be crooked and make it in the market, other companies have to make poor choices along the way. Protect your assets people, the market is for competition not sharing. Every company knows that the market is competitive and that is the ONLY way to survive. If you want to be innovative you gotta protect it if you plan to sell it at any point of time. The market stays alive through self interest, not interest for the group as a whole.

    I understand what SP has done is crooked, but I ask everyone to question how they got away with what they did.

    I don't like SP but I'm sick of sitting around and only looking at one side of the coin, lets look at the big picture and learn something.
  • warbeak2099
    That is my foot!
    • Jan 2004
    • 4447

    #2
    I have embraced Proto has SP's competition for the Ion portion of the market. The SLG rocks the socks off any Ion any day. I am happy to see Proto filling that portion of the market with a product that isn't complete crap.

    Whenever someone looking to purchase a gun in that price range asks me, I always suggest they purchase an SLG. That's how I'm doing my part at least.

    Other than that, SP guns aren't really that popular anymore. NXTs are not as popular as SFTs were in their day and the resale on both markers has plummeted. SP shot itself in the foot by flooding the market with these guns. PE has replaced the Shocker with their Egos as the "in gun" now. They however are doing a bit better at protecting the resale value of their markers. Not that much better, but better nonetheless.
    My Feedback

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    • Coralis
      Hyper Micro
      • Aug 2005
      • 1285

      #3
      unfortunately even if SP closes their doors someone will probably still buy them out just to get the patents, chances are they wont be any better than SP about them either.

      Comment

      • Automagsam
        www.theburkepost.com
        • Jan 2006
        • 345

        #4
        Originally posted by Coralis
        unfortunately even if SP closes their doors someone will probably still buy them out just to get the patents, chances are they wont be any better than SP about them either.
        Agree'd I mean I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here because everyone is so fast to criticize SP (including me) but we need to question what caused this, and how do we go about solving the issue. Lets face the facts, it wasn't SP's dirty tactics alone that caused them to get where they are, other people made mistakes along the way. No one wants to admit it because we all want to put all of the blaim on SP, but as crooked as they are, they couldn't have done it without the mistakes of other people. I'm just posting this to invite anyone with an actual idea of how to solve the situation here, not state how crooked SP is, we all know they are crooked.

        I appreciate posts like yours and honestly the whole patent thing may be a problem, but eventually if they are in huge financial trouble they may not be able to hold on to everything they have right now. Competition is the best way to even out the market though and prevent monopolies, I think eventually the sport will evolve and those patents won't even hold any weight on the market personally.

        Comment

        • questionful
          LNIB
          • Dec 2006
          • 1416

          #5
          Originally posted by Automagsam
          I mean ideally to solve the problem of say SP we would need everyone to start purchasing other things aside from SP products

          There needs to be another company, other than AGD (they don't have enough resources at this point) that can meet the demands of the mainstream consumer (the majority).
          That might be the most plausible way, but it is not the only way. Another way would be to get the Patent Office to reexamine the patents or whatever the legal term for "shoving their bull**** right back up their ***" is.

          Originally posted by Automagsam
          Part of the problem is the fact not enough patenting occurred early on. The lack of economical competition and idea of free ideas only hindered the market and development. If you want people to be able to freely expand on your ideas yet not abuse them like SP abused them, you need to patent and protect them. If the paintball market ever dies soon (which it won't) it'd be due to the lack of competition provided by certain companies. (Yes companies still competed with markers back during the days when things went un patented, but they failed to protect their other ideas). I hate saying this, but ultimately SP came to power because while everyone was being equal and carefree about their ideas with the thought the market only wants to improve them for the good of the sport, SP came along and decided to steal the work, as wrong as this morally may be, companies are suffering for poor competitive economic management.

          I understand what SP has done is crooked, but I ask everyone to question how they got away with what they did.
          I think you're very wrong about the lack of competition today being caused by the lack of patenting before SP. Maybe I'm missing something, because it seems very obvious to me how patenting kills competition. IMO, the whole "Patent" idea is a near-obsolete system that worked 150 years ago. The supposed purpose of patents is an exchange. The inventor discloses his invention (this benefits the industry) and in exchange is given monopoly rights to its use (this is bad for the industry). I will type more later, I just wanted to say that.

          Before I leave the topic for a while, let me say I agree strongly that we do need to quit complaining about people complaining about SP, and actually sit down, discuss, and figure something out.

          May this thread last longer than 3 days.

          Comment

          • pmstc
            free at last
            • Jan 2008
            • 404

            #6
            tl;dr?

            Comment

            • warbeak2099
              That is my foot!
              • Jan 2004
              • 4447

              #7
              Originally posted by questionful

              I think you're very wrong about the lack of competition today being caused by the lack of patenting before SP.
              Yea especially since back in the early 90's there were more companies belting out Nelson and Sheridan clones than you could shake a stick at.
              My Feedback

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              • questionful
                LNIB
                • Dec 2006
                • 1416

                #8
                Originally posted by warbeak2099
                Yea especially since back in the early 90's there were more companies belting out Nelson and Sheridan clones than you could shake a stick at.
                Each with a series of new, innovative features. So many companies, all competing. This is what caused the arms race of the late 80's - early 90's. And now look. The poor dude in the workshop whose username starts with an S has to pretty much rule out the possibility of making and selling his own new, innovative electropneumatic design.

                "What a beautiful world" playing over muted napalm explosions (i forgot the name of the movie that was in, sorry).

                Comment

                • Hilltop Customs
                  Registered User
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 1260

                  #9
                  Originally posted by questionful
                  Before I leave the topic for a while, let me say I agree strongly that we do need to quit complaining about people complaining about SP, and actually sit down, discuss, and figure something out.
                  if someone is posting about smart parts just to start drama, then people have a right to complain. If someone wants to post their opinion about smart parts, they can easily find an older SP complaint thread and post what they want. Now if someone wants to discuss the issue, the first step that person has to take is gaining some knowledge on the subject so they dont come off like an ***....which is exactly what has happened a few times recently. After that, I see no problem with said person starting a new thread to discuss the topic.....I'd imagine most people on AO feel the same way. Personally, I wouldnt mind seeing it discussed more.

                  On another note, and Ive said this a few times already, electronics are not required to play paintball, it is the players wanting to use electronics that give smart part's patents their power. Get rid of the dumbass ramping rules and go back to 1 shot 1 pull. After that SP patents lose all their power, since what they cover will no longer be in demand. Pneumags prove that mechanical markers can be created which have rates of fire comparable to electronics, they just cant duplicate ramping, which IMO should have never been brought into paintball in the first place.

                  thats enough for now....

                  Comment

                  • tech-chan
                    is the TKO of design.
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 875

                    #10
                    I've said it before, I'll say it again. The first time you ramp is the first time the the game is no longer a rush. It just gets boring.

                    Comment

                    • questionful
                      LNIB
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 1416

                      #11
                      How do you advertise that?

                      Now with lower ROF!!

                      Comment

                      • Hilltop Customs
                        Registered User
                        • Aug 2007
                        • 1260

                        #12
                        advertise it with a much cheaper pricetag(no royalties, no electronics = less cost)

                        if two markers were being sold with the exact same design, one was an extremely nice mechanical and the other used electronics for activation. If the mechanical version was $100 and the electronic version was $200, I would definely consider the mechanical as long as it had a pneumag like trigger, how about you?

                        Comment

                        • Automagsam
                          www.theburkepost.com
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 345

                          #13
                          The only reason I brought up patents is because that seems to be a key issue here as far as paying royalties, plus i remember reading how things were left unpatented so as other companies could expand on the idea. Had these things gone patented a while ago they'd be owned by their original owners, now the original owners pay royalties to SP, but that isn't really my point, I'm wondering how do we go about fixing this, clearly no one is going to look into SP's patents cause I'm sure if the players know about them the CEOS of the other companies that got screwed sure as hell know, so how do we go about this?

                          Comment

                          • Hilltop Customs
                            Registered User
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 1260

                            #14
                            I hope my first post didnt come off describing this thread as one to complain about, as this thread has a decent start and seems to be more thought out than most. What I was attempting to describe in my previous post are threads which have a few lines of smart parts hate followed by a link to a petition....I tried to find the perfect example from last week(I think) but apparently both were deleted. Anyway sorry if it came off like I was encouraging complaints against your thread, this thread seems to encourage ideas and deeper thought which can only be beneficial.


                            just to add another something else....you mention buying other companies products besides smart parts. While this encourages other companies by increasing their revenues, smart parts will still be profiting since they will still receive royalties. In reality, by supporting other companies you are still supporting smart parts, unless you are buying a mechanical marker or purchasing from a company not licensed by smart parts.

                            Comment

                            • Enemy
                              aKa PROZAC
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 1245

                              #15
                              though it is true that bye buying another electro some money gets back to smartparts but it is not the profit margin of if you bought straight from sp..

                              the problem is the gross amount of people that do complain while they have an sp gun sitting right behind them.
                              VV04962 yeah thats my Pewter CnC X-mag

                              Looking for a milled 04 featherlight viking!!!

                              my feedback!!!http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...84#post1584884

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